Why hide the serial number ?

BradS · Jan 11, 2021

Wayne said:
Has this ever happened in the history of the world though? It would be extremely brazen if not insane to use the police and insurance to steal something, with an extremely low chance of success.

...and seemingly, a fairly considerable likelihood of being immediately proven guilty of fraud.

BrianShaw · Jan 11, 2021

So the bottom line seems to be: people obscure serial numbers for rather obscure reasons.

BradS · Jan 11, 2021

Most of which don’t pass the smell test.

BrianShaw · Jan 11, 2021

... but do no harm.

Wallendo · Jan 11, 2021

Knowing a serial number in no way proves ownership. To file any claim with insurance or the police will generally require some type of proof of purchase.

I guess with a very recent used camera, a fraudster could use a serial number to register a camera with the manufacturer, but I don't know if that would really be of any use.

There are enough ways to "steal" cameras via eBay loopholes that I don't see any real incentive for serial number fraud.

If anything, I think it would be advantageous for sellers to clearly show the serial number in case a buyer returns a defective product with a different serial number.

AgX · Jan 11, 2021

BrianShaw said:
In the US, stolen property remains the owned by the original owner, not the possessor... even if the current possessor obtained it through legal purchase. So if someone’s able to concoct a claim, law enforcement or civil action can be taken to repatriate the stolen property with the rightful owner. In the case of a camera.. I can’t imagine anyone so desperately willing to take such fraudulent action. But such an accusation would seriously defame and inconvenience the victim of such fraud.

Here the same applies as for insurence companies. They want better proof, more so as the possessor, or pre-posseesor made the serial number-public.

Sirius Glass · Jan 11, 2021

I look for the serial number because for some equipment it tells when it was make. Without that information or if the seller will not provide it, I move on.

Wayne · Jan 11, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
I look for the serial number because for some equipment it tells when it was make. Without that information or if the seller will not provide it, I move on.

Nothing wrong with providing it if asked, that's for sure. I would move on if someone wouldn't provide it when asked.

mgb74 · Jan 11, 2021

AgX said:
A faker could also inquire.

That creates a trail. Of course it can be done without creating a trail, but that requires more effort. So, unless it's an item with serious value, I'm not sure a scammer would go through the effort.

beemermark · Jan 12, 2021

I think some people do it because they are paranoid. If you ask them why they do it they probably can't provide an answer. However, to me and a lot of people posting here, it really brings into question if the camera was stolen or the seller is afraid it was stolen. I had a Leica M4 and lenses stolen some years back, and a Minolta CLE about 5 years ago. I filed police reports on both. The police are diligent on tracking pawn dealers and other sources. I've watched the internet and wonder where do these cameras go? I think once the thief realizes what he stole is worthless he throws it away.

AgX · Jan 12, 2021

BrianShaw said:
In the US, stolen property remains the owned by the original owner, not the possessor... even if the current possessor obtained it through legal purchase.

Same here. Though with exceptions concerning some auctions.

Sirius Glass · Jan 12, 2021

beemermark said:
I think some people do it because they are paranoid. If you ask them why they do it they probably can't provide an answer. However, to me and a lot of people posting here, it really brings into question if the camera was stolen or the seller is afraid it was stolen. I had a Leica M4 and lenses stolen some years back, and a Minolta CLE about 5 years ago. I filed police reports on both. The police are diligent on tracking pawn dealers and other sources. I've watched the internet and wonder where do these cameras go? I think once the thief realizes what he stole is worthless he throws it away.

No, I think most of the are clueless about serial numbers.

Kilgallb · Jan 13, 2021

If someone has 5 lenses to sell and the photo has the serial number, you can demand the exact one seen in the photo, at least on ebay. Maybe the seller is lazy and made one photo to sell more than one item.

rick shaw · Jan 13, 2021

This is the Internet. There is no end to th stuff people will try to do, where it is illegal, immoral, illogical, or just down right stupid.

tballphoto · Mar 28, 2021

All i need to do is copy a photo of YOUR favorite ultra rare limited edition still in box Hasselblad or Leica, one that has the serial number shown. Then go buy a similar camera in crappier more affordable condition. Then do a fake robbery theft claim and submit the photo i took from your ad. Because i have the photo, the police think im the real owner of YOUR camera.

Still have the original sales receipts my friends?

Also consider the Bronica S2A. Its a cut off number. I have found alot of photographs of "genuine" S2a cameras that have doctored serial numbers. That when enlarged show that camera serial 164500 is just a two minute change VIA paint pen and its actually serial number 144500

gone · Mar 28, 2021

Some guy in Virginia is going to see his stolen camera advertised on ebay, from a California seller who bought it from some guy named Biff or Bob or something in Tucson? How is that gonna work? Crossing several states, who you gonna prosecute, and where? It's just........ridiculous.

tballphoto · Mar 28, 2021

momus said:
Some guy in Virginia is going to see his stolen camera advertised on ebay, from a California seller who bought it from some guy named Biff or Bob or something in Tucson? How is that gonna work? Crossing several states, who you gonna prosecute, and where? It's just........ridiculous.

Things like this have happened.

radiant · Mar 29, 2021

I just hate that EXIF contains both serial numbers. I don't know why this kind of information should be included in EXIF at all.

Why? As if we aren't being identified and tracked online enough. This is not just personal but I see this as global issue. People don't even understand that they are sending GPS positions inside their photos to rest of the world.

Why does this matter? Because the information is always used against us; profiling, tracking and business made with this data without our concent. This is not about my single photo, scale this issue to millions of photos and you probably would like to own that data, too.

Wayne · Mar 29, 2021

momus said:
Some guy in Virginia is going to see his stolen camera advertised on ebay, from a California seller who bought it from some guy named Biff or Bob or something in Tucson? How is that gonna work? Crossing several states, who you gonna prosecute, and where? It's just........ridiculous.

You don't need to prosecute to regain possession, you just need someone willing to do the repossession legally. Or you could do it yourself, if you don't get caught doing something illegal in the process.

Sirius Glass · Mar 29, 2021

vedostuu said:
I just hate that EXIF contains both serial numbers. I don't know why this kind of information should be included in EXIF at all.

Why? As if we aren't being identified and tracked online enough. This is not just personal but I see this as global issue. People don't even understand that they are sending GPS positions inside their photos to rest of the world.

Why does this matter? Because the information is always used against us; profiling, tracking and business made with this data without our concent. This is not about my single photo, scale this issue to millions of photos and you probably would like to own that data, too.

Actually it can probably be used in nailing someone for child pornography.

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 29, 2021

All the large format lenses I bought from Japanese resellers showed the serial numbers in the pictures and included it in the text describing the lens. How else do you know what lens you're looking at in the pictures before you decide to buy it? They could be showing a different lens than the one they ship. Of course, when it arrives, I check it against the number on the actual lens.

Showing the serial number in the photo ad is the proper way to do it.

BradS · Mar 29, 2021

momus said:
Some guy in Virginia is going to see his stolen camera advertised on ebay, from a California seller who bought it from some guy named Biff or Bob or something in Tucson? How is that gonna work? Crossing several states, who you gonna prosecute, and where? It's just........ridiculous.

Agreed. Absurd paranoia.

Wayne · Mar 30, 2021

BradS said:
Agreed. Absurd paranoia.

Well, again, you don't need to prosecute to get your stolen stuff back. Prosecution is irrelevant. I've gotten stolen items back after 20 years, but nobody was prosecuted because the statute of limitations was long expired and the person who possessed it at the time didn't know it was stolen. Unfortunate for them, but life isn't always fair.

BradS · Mar 30, 2021

Wayne said:
Well, again, you don't need to prosecute to get your stolen stuff back. Prosecution is irrelevant. I've gotten stolen items back after 20 years, but nobody was prosecuted because the statute of limitations was long expired and the person who possessed it at the time didn't know it was stolen. Unfortunate for them, but life isn't always fair.

and was your stuff cameras and lenses? Or something else? Had you filed a police report all those many years ago? And when you filed the police report, did you have to show evidence that you actually were the owner of the stuff in question (I'm specifically thinking of original receipts with dates and serial numbers etc).

My point is that the police aren't going to just come to my house and collect up my belongings based upon some photo that I posted of my belongings on the internet. There's much more involved - prior police reports, evidence of an actual crime, maybe even an insurance claim? and the perpetrator of this imagined easy scam / fraud better have a pretty good idea about when I bought the stuff and hope that I don't have proof that of that.

EDIT: (added later) and after some thought I see your point too. I think what you're saying is that If I bought a 50 year old lens 5 years ago and advertise it for sale today, with photos showing the serial number and that lens was reported stolen 20 years ago, and the person from whom it was stolens sees my photos and realizes that it is the same lens, then all he has to do is report this to the police and...somehow the police come knocking on my door (possibly in another state though? How would that work?) and re-posses the lens that was reported stolen 20 years ago...yes?

AgX · Mar 31, 2021

But then veiling the serial number by purpose, as one considers the chance of it being stolen, does not already bring one into conflict to the law in some jurisdiction?
I don't know but I find it imaginable at least.

Why hide the serial number ?

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