why does mixing xtol have to be such a pain

BetterSense · Aug 15, 2015

The xtol instructions say to mix it up to a final volume of 5l. Who has a 5l graduated cylinder? If it were 1 gallon like Dektol, at least I could use a gallon jug. Why can't they just tell us how much water to add, so we could measure it out easily?

I am going to weigh my next batch of xtol when I am done so I can subtract the weight of the powder and find out how much water added results in 5l. Has anyone already done this?

rbultman · Aug 15, 2015

I use a 2 (3?) gallon translucent container. I filled it with 5L of water and marked the level with a Sharpie. I use that level when mixing batches of XTOL. I put in 4L, mix it up, then fill to the marker line.

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removed account4 · Aug 15, 2015

what he said
i get my giant translucent containers from
the dollar store. they are cheap as can be.

Sirius Glass · Aug 15, 2015

Why is it hard? I bought a plastic paint bucket and marked it with 1 quart, 2 quarts, 3 quarts, 4 quarts, 5 quarts, 1 liter, 2 liters, 3 liters, 4 liters and 5 liters. Problems solved.

mklw1954 · Aug 15, 2015

I use a 5 liter wine bottle, then put the individual liters in plain seltzer water 1-liter plastic bottles squeezed so there's no air and store them in the dark. PET plastic is an excellent oxygen barrier.

MattKing · Aug 16, 2015

Mix it up in a US gallon or non-US four litre container - a milk jug should work fine. Then divide the result into five equal parts with one part in each of five one litre containers.
Add enough water to each container to bring the total volume in each container to one litre.

If you dont have any litre containers, it won't make much of a difference if you use five US quart containers instead.

Adjust according to the containers you have available and the units you prefer to work with.

The important thing is to understand that you can mix it up in a somewhat smaller container, and then dilute it further.

dasBlute · Aug 16, 2015

I mix in in a big stainless 10L soup pot, with sharpie marks on the inside for 5L. Mix it a little warm, grind the grains against the bottom, ladle it into 5 1L bottles. Absolutely, totally worth the effort, the results speak for themselves. I use it 1:1, and get 10 batches of 4x5 or 5x7 from it [i.e 100 4x5s or 50 5x7s].

bdial · Aug 16, 2015

I use a 5L refrigerator jug that I found at the grocery store. As dasBlute did, I marked the 5L level with a sharpie so it's easy to tell exactly how much water is needed to top it off.
I decant it from there into my storage bottles.

Tony Egan · Aug 16, 2015

For years I have used a cheap 5l+ bucket from a hardware store and marked 5l by scratching a little cut on the inside with a box cutter. I store the stock in 5 litre "wine" bladders (actually 5l boxed "pure water" as I am a snob about cheap wine...) Anyway, I was lucky enough to score a well-used graduated 5 litre jug from a closing down darkroom recently. I still like my old red bucket though!

ChuckP · Aug 16, 2015

Is it going to make that much difference if you just start with 5l of water and add the XTOL powder to that?

Neal · Aug 16, 2015

Dear BetterSense,

I purchased a bucket at Home Depot with a 5L graduation. When checked, it turned out to be quite accurate. If you want a real tip for mixing Xtol, use distilled water and get a magnetic stirrer on ebay (ones that don't heat are cheap). I put the bucket on the stirrer, follow the instructions on the packet and separate into 250ml bottles.

Having said all that, I'm sure you can get your proposed method to work.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

Joel_L · Aug 16, 2015

I mix mine to 2.5L then adjust accordingly when I mix the working strength solution

BetterSense · Aug 16, 2015

I also store mine in a wine bladder, so topping up the final storage containers is not an option.

I guess I need to get a cheap bucket, literally for the sole purpose of mixing xtol, since I have no use for a contaminated bucket otherwise (I have buckets, but they are used for wine and beer brewing so I can't use them for developer or vice versa).

AlexMalm01 · Aug 18, 2015

You can buy large plastic containers from darkroom supply shops online. Mine has a floating lid as well to reduce oxidation. Brand is doran. So it's my mixing and storage container.

I always use distilled water and my xtol lasts at least 6 months in this container (probably more but i used it all up).

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AlexMalm01 · Aug 18, 2015

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/88372-REG/Doran_Plastic_Storage_Tank_2.html

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Gerald C Koch · Aug 18, 2015

Isn't the saying that "One must suffer for one's art?"

Five liter containers are common in metric countries where they take the place of gallon ones in the US. At one time Kodak sold new 5 liter jugs.

Concentrated acids are sold in 2.5 liter jugs. Check with a local college or university. They often have empties that must be disposed of and would be glad to get ride of them.

Photo Engineer · Aug 18, 2015

Two comments here:

1. Jobo large containers are 5 L. I use them all the time and they are very air tight.

2. Adding solids to liquids is not linear and so 1 kg of powder + 1 kg of water is NOT equal to 2 liters of solution. It is equal to 2 kg of solution, but in this case, that is meaningless. Adding a solid to a liquid may cause density to go up (most cases) or down (some cases). Beware of this fallacy.

PE

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 18, 2015

I have standard 5L/5qt 5x7" hard rubber dip-and-dunk tanks, so I combine the powder with water in a 2L graduate, and when it's mostly dissolved, pour it into the tank and add 3L of water.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 18, 2015

I've been using XTOL for a while, still have to finish one pack.
I have 1 gallon containers from muratic acid I use for office pool maintenance. It is one gallon of liquid and some air on the top.
I used it for XTOL and using it now for Kodak Fixer. Preparing it in half-full or more and filling it to the top. I have no idea if it is 4.5L or 5.1L.
It isn't big deal for XTOL it seems. I'm using tap water and not squeezing container, no problems for three months of regular use.

BetterSense · Aug 18, 2015

Adding solids to liquids is not linear and so 1 kg of powder + 1 kg of water is NOT equal to 2 liters of solution. It is equal to 2 kg of solution, but in this case, that is meaningless

My idea was to mix up 5 liters of xtol per the directions, then weigh it. Then, subtract the weight of the powder, and I would then know how much water I had added. I could accomplish the same by metering in the water. If I knew how much water to add, I could mix it up directly in my wine bladder. The only problem I can see is if the formula changes, my calculations would then be off, but I could weigh the powder first to check for any changes.

MattKing · Aug 18, 2015

Mix it up to a total volume of one US gallon.

Then add enough water to make the total volume 5 litres. I calculate that you will need 37 ounces.

Photo Engineer · Aug 18, 2015

BetterSense said:
My idea was to mix up 5 liters of xtol per the directions, then weigh it. Then, subtract the weight of the powder, and I would then know how much water I had added. I could accomplish the same by metering in the water. If I knew how much water to add, I could mix it up directly in my wine bladder. The only problem I can see is if the formula changes, my calculations would then be off, but I could weigh the powder first to check for any changes.

Weight + weight is not equal to volume + weight or volume + volume.

Liquids and solids do not mix up to equal volume. They do in weight.

You do not understand one of the basic facts of chemistry.

Sorry.

PE

phelger · Aug 19, 2015

I know KODAK recommends not to mix in smaller portions, but since I have a scale that seems to weigh precisely to the gramme, I intend for my next batch of Xtol to weigh off half the powder and prepare 2.5l of stock solution.
Has anybody tried this and what results?
peter

Simon R Galley · Aug 19, 2015

Dear Phelger,

It is NOT a good idea to part mix powder chemicals...in fact its a very bad idea... you may well have half the powder... but not the correct half ? ie all the different chemicals in the correct volumes, mix all then store as a liquid.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Gerald C Koch · Aug 19, 2015

phelger said:
I know KODAK recommends not to mix in smaller portions,

When the powder was added to the container it was as homogeneous are possible. HOWEVER due to uneven settling during shipment the this is no longer true. This means that the contents are no longer uniform. It doesn't matter whether you divide it by weight or by volume each of the portions will not longer be the same.

Follow what Kodak recommends.

why does mixing xtol have to be such a pain

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