Why does 127 film still exist?

[darkroommike]

My first camera was a Brownie Starmite 2 so I'll always have a special place in my heart for the size.

 

[dmr]

My first camera was a Brownie Starmite 2 so I'll always have a special place in my heart for the size.

Mine was the Starflash, for my b'day maybe age 7-8 or so.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

We should not overlook that the spread of type 127 was not homogeneous.
For instance hardly any german type 127 cameras were manufactured and the Brownie seems unknown in Germany.

The popularity of 127 in the U.S. is mostly due to Kodak, I think. Kodak, like all companies seeking to make quick and easy money, made many millions of simple 127 format cameras for the general U.S. public so that they could capture family moments, holidays, vacations, etc. Kodak's influence was so pervasive that, until I was about 10 years old, I was unaware that non-Kodak cameras existed (other than Polaroid).

 

[choiliefan]

Baby Box Tengor and the original Voigtlander Perkeo.
Thinking most of the German 127 cameras are very old.

 

[cmacd123]

We should not overlook that the spread of type 127 was not homogeneous.
For instance hardly any german type 127 cameras were manufactured and the Brownie seems unknown in Germany.

but I have seen MANY Ferrania 127 cameras on e-bay as of late. (I know, I know, the Italians were not big at trading with other countries for much of the 20th century.)

 

[cmacd123]

My first camera was a Brownie Starmite 2 so I'll always have a special place in my heart for the size.

yes, mine was a Starflash, and their were other 127 brownie and "star" cameras both before and after, indeed for at least 5 years after the Starflash, right up to the sudden switch to 126 in the mid sixties.

 

[swchris]

The Minolta more than the Pentax. View attachment 213627

But the Pentax has faster lenses.

 

[Wayne]

Amen, Brother!! In the morning I often wonder how that Old Fart got into my bathroom!

What i mean was I learned there are a lot of people here significantly older than me so that I don't even know what they're talking about. I go back to 110 film, I think my dad got me a 110 instamatic the year they came out. But I don't remember any specific small format films prior to that. I might remember some large format films that my dad used late in his career, if someone hypnotized me lol. I know they came in yellow boxes. ;-)

 

[Theo Sulphate]

What i mean was I learned there are a lot of people here significantly older than me so that I don't even know what they're talking about. I go back to 110 film, I think my dad got me a 110 instamatic the year they came out. But I don't remember any specific small format films prior to that. ...

The only thing you missed was 126-format film, the first Instamatic film, which was introduced in 1963. Its attractiveness was that it came in a drop-in cartridge. 110-format arrived in 1972; it was basically a smaller version of 126.

Film flatness was said to be an issue with these formats. The supply side of these films was loose in the cartridge, so there was no tension across the film plane. Also, there was no pressure on the film itself - just on the back of the cartridge.

However, since most buyers of these films were not highly critical and prints were usually 4x4" or smaller, image quality was good enough.

These were also the days of kiosks in shopping center parking lots, offering 1-hour service from film drop-off to finished prints.

 

[Meyer Trioplan]

We should not overlook that the spread of type 127 was not homogeneous.
For instance hardly any german type 127 cameras were manufactured and the Brownie seems unknown in Germany.

I can think of a pretty impressive number of 127 film cameras from Germany and seem to think the format had a wider appeal than other formats like 116 and 616.

Zeiss 518 half frame folder
Zeh Goldi half frame folder
Ihagee Westentaschen 2850 full frame folder
Certo Dolly full and half frame folders
Baby Rolleiflex TLR
Bilora Bella 44 and 46, and the Ansco lancer variants
127 format Vollenda Nagel folders
Leidolf Leidox vf Camera
Agfa Billy Zero

 

[Theo Sulphate]

While researching the Billy Zero, I found this page which has a chart of European 127 format cameras:

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Agfa_Billy_Zero

 

[AgX]

These are a few models out of 10-thousands.
I hardly have come across any of these. And I had thousands of cameras in my hand. Some even were for export only.
The Biloras show up some time here.

Yes, I need type 127 too, but I reject the idea of this format being as wide spread as in the US. For a true answer I would have to check production and export listings of film manufacturers.

Much, much prevelant here are type Rapid cameras. A format a respective camera most of you likely never had in hand....

 

[Meyer Trioplan]

Had to investigate what this was. You weren't kidding:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/inspiredphotosdotcom/4200965437

Sort of curiously, my Instax 210 still manages to make this camera look pretty diminutive by comparison. Admittedly, the Revere Eye-Matic is something of a guilty pleasure of cameras, and the Wollensak 58/2.8 gives a very painterly effect when shooting near objects wide open.

While researching the Billy Zero, I found this page which has a chart of European 127 format cameras:

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Agfa_Billy_Zero

Awesome list! Interestingly, while it had a number of models I was unaware of, it also omitted a few other ones more commonly seen, such as the German Foth Derby (Which I also forgot in my listing above) as well as the easily found Bellas from Bilora. The list also made me recall the Thowette and Balda Piccochic as other examples of 3x4 127 cameras. The tiny Eho Box camera is another fun one of German origin.


My overall, somewhat amateur take on the history of 127 is that it wound up being a very resilient format that seems to have escaped death at least a couple of times...

Introduced around 1914, most early 127 cameras were of the "full frame" variety such as the Vest Pocket Kodak models, and the variety of cameras tended to range from simple to more capable, with a major selling point being portability in comparison to bulkier formats like 116 and 120.

By the Depression, 35mm was beginning to make its initial inroads as a still photography format, with a seemingly large portion of models geared toward the higher end of the market, and 127 "competed" in some respects with the introduction of "half frame" models that ranged from simple to advanced, allowing 16 shots per roll compared to the typical 18-20 frames then typical in 35mm cassettes. The 30x40mm images of half-frame 127 were still 40% larger than full frame 135, and the cameras were often just as small if not smaller.

In the postwar period, 35mm really seemed to emerge as the small format of choice, though it seems 127 still had another trick up its sleeve. The 50's and 60's were in some ways "The Slide Show Era" and a number of new cameras were introduced in 127 square format to allow the ability to shoot 4x4 "Super Slides" that were nearly twice as large as 35mm. These were accompanied by other simple 4x4 models geared towards square format prints. Interestingly, while Kodak Ektrachrome and Anscochrome were offered in the 127 format for years, Kodachrome never was.

As alluded to earlier in the thread, the introduction of 126 format in 1963 resulted in a long slow decline for 127. Kodak dropped its last film offering in 1996, and Efke kept the torch lit for decades after. Even with their closure since, there are still a few "cottage" offerings in the format that a few enterprising folks manage, and Ilford still does a 46mm run of HP5 every year, while the format is eyed by Ferrania for some runs of P30 at some point.

From what I can tell, the German makers (save Voigtlander it seems) seemed to "support" 127 for much of the time that models were offered, but seemed to have the most offerings during the half-frame wave of the 1930's, as the industry seemed to test the waters in both 127 and 35mm to see just what would be the miniature format of the future.

And with all this retelling, I'm now a bit curious as to just what were the last models produced in the 127 format. I'd sadly guess it to be a half-frame toy camera of some sort that could be offered as a premium for sending in bubble gum comics or cereal box tops.

 

[Meyer Trioplan]

These are a few models out of 10-thousands.
I hardly have come across any of these. And I had thousands of cameras in my hand. Some even were for export only.
The Biloras show up some time here.

Yes, I need type 127 too, but I reject the idea of this format being as wide spread as in the US. For a true answer I would have to check production and export listings of film manufacturers.

Much, much prevelant here are type Rapid cameras. A format a respective camera most of you likely never had in hand....

Ironically, I just finally picked up a Minolta 24 Rapid just a few weeks ago, later picking up a Agfa Isoflash Rapid C within the past 2 weeks to boost my supply of rapid casettes, and an Isomat is on the way. I'm actually quite fond of these models. Just scanned some images from the Isoflash last night and was pleasantly surprised at the definition from a simple fixed focus lens.

And yes, these cameras are very scarce in the US. The Isoflash-C is the only one that shows up with any degree of frequency - I'd be interested in an Agfa Optima Rapid type square format shooter, but they are tough to find here.

 

[removed account4]

$$$

 

[choiliefan]

I believe the plastic Bedfordflex TLR was made into the eighties.

 

[AgX]

Post 1945 no type 127 camera was made in East-Germany.