Why do you all do 'alternative processes' rather than the norm?

tezzasmall · Feb 20, 2015

Hi all,

I'm doing my third and final year of a photography degree in the UK and am currently writing my dissertation about alternative processes to the usual put a film in a camera and d+p it route. I therefore wondered...

'Why do people still pursue the process of camera-less photography?'

I want to keep the question and answers as open as possible so if you have any view at all, please do contribute. By camera-less I mean anything from photograms, Cyanotype, luminograms, chemigrams, night time imaging... the list goes on and I hope to be introduced to some new ones!'

Many thanks in advance.

Terry S

MDR · Feb 20, 2015

I like to make cyanograms on thicker japanese washi paper by only using the shadow of an object falling onto the paper, the object does not touch the paper. Glass objects are especially interesting and the resulting image has a ghost like Quality. As for the reason I can't get the same effect with any other photographic technique and the result pleases me aesthetically.

gzinsel · Feb 20, 2015

to the first question: my aesthetic position is, it looks better. platinum, salt, kalitype all look better then silver gelatin.
to the second question. I do not "do" camera-less photography. I always use a lens and film to capture image, I would also include pinhole in this category. I usually contact print all work.I only on occasion print silver gelatin. Alt process is just better.

GLSmyth · Feb 20, 2015

I have enjoyed making lumen prints because they give life to paper that is too hopelessly fogged for any other use. That said, it gives me a chance to use my imagination when finding objects to place on the paper, and how I should expose the print (for instance, sometimes I pour water over the paper before placing the items on - the water can make interesting patterns, as in https://glsmyth.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/lumen5.jpg).

I will be giving a talk next week on pinhole and alternative processes and will include lumen prints in the discussion because it will translate to digital photography. Lumen prints lose most of their color if fixed, so they need to be scanned, and by simply adjusting with levels and curves a plethora of colors can be presented.

Cheers -

george

removed account4 · Feb 20, 2015

hi terry

make cameraless photographs because they are fun, and one of a kind, unless of course
i contact print the image and make a series of positives. i also make negatives using paper and charcoal
and doing a rubbing of something. i then make that paper see through using paraffin/wax and use that as a negative as well.
sometimes i use a silver based process ( regular photo paper or emulsion i coat onto things ) sometime an iron based process ( cyanotype )
when i make cyanotypes i typically get tired of the blueness, so i remove the blue using a bleach and then paint the images using water colors, or
i use crayons.
i besides under and enlarger i also make photograms using sunlight on photo paper as well, and use photo paper in a camera to make long exposed "retina" images.
i've done this in small cameras like a 35mm, box cameras ( upto and including 4x5' ) as well as large cameras i made myself just for this purpose that
are as big as 11x14 and 21x15... i have sort of stabilized / fixed a few of them but most of them get scanned and maybe inverted. they are ephemeral and
if they aren't scanned they turn black or grey or if fixed they vanish into white paper.
why do i do these things ?
i do it mostly because it is fun ...
feel free to go to my website ( sig line ) to see what i am talking about ..

good luck with your project.
john

cliveh · Feb 20, 2015

tezzasmall said:
Hi all,

I'm doing my third and final year of a photography degree in the UK and am currently writing my dissertation about alternative processes to the usual put a film in a camera and d+p it route. I therefore wondered...

'Why do people still pursue the process of camera-less photography?'

I want to keep the question and answers as open as possible so if you have any view at all, please do contribute. By camera-less I mean anything from photograms, Cyanotype, luminograms, chemigrams, night time imaging... the list goes on and I hope to be introduced to some new ones!'

Many thanks in advance.

Terry S

For the same reason some people paint in oils, or watercolour, or make silk screens, or work in acrylics.

MDR · Feb 20, 2015

Oh missed the alt. process part and thought it was only about camera less photography.

So to answer the alt.process question the salted paper process which I practice the most has a delicacy and tonal quality unmatched by any other photographic process be it digital, alt. photo, or silver gelatin, it is also a very versatile process in regards to color different papers and formulas yield different Colors. Another reason for using this process lies in the challenge to master this seemingly simple (anything but) and pretty basic process.

gzinsel · Feb 20, 2015

If I were to make a "hasty generalization" I would contend that most people who "do" camera less and alt. process, do it because he/she likes TO MAKE. The verb here should be understood in some narrow sense, i.e. to make with ones hand, and it is made by means, chemically and physically, as opposed to 'clicking" on the mouse pad "to make" . Its a physical activity that includes chemistry, artistry, and some sort of touch sensitive qualities, that give the print a"hand of god" feel(sorry diego rivera, i've co-opted your term). Most people who print only silver gelatin, prefer(hasty generalization here) the consistency and "more professional" look/feel. they would prefer not to see evidence of the artist hand. Many people who print silver gelatin, (IMO) prefer to optimize the gaze or view, maintaining or accentuating- the "as if" quality. i.e. you are seeing the grand canyon, "as if" you were at the grand canyon, even though you are at the gallery! people who print digitally, prefer speed and convenience over "nasty chemicals" and hard labor, and math and chemistry. . . .etc.

bsdunek · Feb 20, 2015

I enjoy the creativity. At shows I often get the comment "did you Photoshop that?"

snapguy · Feb 20, 2015

why

Why lug an easel, paints, canvas, and all the other stuff around Paris when you can go BAM with a modern camera and capture the scene in an instant? Why cook a gourmet dinner when there are pizza joints who deliver all over the place? Gee whiz, maybe its art these Alt dudes are after....

Ghostman · Feb 21, 2015

jnanian said:
hi terry

make cameraless photographs because they are fun, and one of a kind, unless of course
i contact print the image and make a series of positives. i also make negatives using paper and charcoal
and doing a rubbing of something. i then make that paper see through using paraffin/wax and use that as a negative as well.
sometimes i use a silver based process ( regular photo paper or emulsion i coat onto things ) sometime an iron based process ( cyanotype )
when i make cyanotypes i typically get tired of the blueness, so i remove the blue using a bleach and then paint the images using water colors, or
i use crayons.
i besides under and enlarger i also make photograms using sunlight on photo paper as well, and use photo paper in a camera to make long exposed "retina" images.
i've done this in small cameras like a 35mm, box cameras ( upto and including 4x5' ) as well as large cameras i made myself just for this purpose that
are as big as 11x14 and 21x15... i have sort of stabilized / fixed a few of them but most of them get scanned and maybe inverted. they are ephemeral and
if they aren't scanned they turn black or grey or if fixed they vanish into white paper.
why do i do these things ?
i do it mostly because it is fun ...
feel free to go to my website ( sig line ) to see what i am talking about ..

good luck with your project.
john

Thanks for sharing. I'd love to be a fly on the studio wall.

Ghostman · Feb 21, 2015

So that we can manifest, exorcise and create our way out of a hole that would otherwise have slippery edges. Nurture craft, grow, cook, eat, make love and make art.

ced · Feb 21, 2015

Here is my take.
I was not aware of alt photography & when I first saw some of the various techniques at an open house exhibition I was bowled over by what I saw.
I think the reason people take on this masochistic process is the sheer challenge of bringing so many possible chances/variables of failure under control & end up with a unique work (possibly art) to behold.
I think that it is quite satisfying to learn a part of the so many techniques on offer i.e. pure photography (analog/digital), negative/positive preparation, chemistry, choice of paper types, various pigments, brush or other methods for applying the different coatings that need to be mastered, development bleaching, intensifying, toning, etc. etc. & etc.
Good luck with your investigation!

tezzasmall · Feb 26, 2015

Thank you for all of your comments so far...

Here just to say thanks to you all for your comments so far. There's some really helpfull stuff and some of the posts have got me thinking of trying out things that I've always wanted to do, along with some bits that I never thought of doing that I now want to find time to do!

Terry

wildbillbugman · Mar 3, 2015

Hello Tery
I have been an "experimenter" for the last 90% of my life. I do not do Alt Processes to preserve the 19th century. I like trying out ideas and I see much more opportunity to try out my ideas with "chemical photography" than with "digital". With digital photography, there is little room for experimentation. On the same note. I may start out with an old recipe. But I quickly begin to experiment.
The fact that it has been many years since I have been interested in "reflective images on paper" fuels my experimentation. I specialize in multi-layer transparencies on glass. There is relatively little "history" upon which to depend. So, I am neither "old school" or "new school". I guess you could call me "reschool"
Hope this is of some value,
Bill

Ionlyshootfilm · Mar 23, 2015

I play with alternative processes because too many of my favourite papers have disappeared along with the companies that made them. There's nothing in a salt print or a cyanotype that's likely to be unavailable in the future.

davido · Mar 23, 2015

There is something so incredibly satisfying creating a photographic print out of watercolour paper and chemicals. It's just magical!
When you print one and it's got a great tonal range, it looks fantastic. I tone all my Kallitypes in gold or platinum and they have a sheen when held the right way - you can see the metal reflecting the light!
So it's the way a homemade print looks but it's also (I have to admit) the challenge of overcoming the dozens of problems which pop up, including those popular faves staining & low d-max.

David

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 25, 2015

I like how some of my work looks as a carbon transfer print and I like how some of my work looks as a kallitype print. Other than that, I don't know how to answer the question.

Photowithfries · Oct 14, 2015

photo-serigraph

As a kind of alternative process, I've been shooting images in the studio with black and white film,then processing and doing lithographic separations turning out posterized images, and now halftones as well, then making serigraph prints using water based inks. The process allows for silver recovery, water and biodegradable cleanup, using very little energy consumption, leaving the smallest environmental footprint possible. The photo/litho/screen process is exciting to do, the prints are beautiful in color saturation, detail, and lighting. It is a work in progress that can be controlled from beginning to end. Thanks for asking!

michr · Oct 14, 2015

I make occasional cyanotypes and have experimented a bit with other alternative processes. The fact that I can take a nice cotton rag paper, coat it, and in a few minutes have an image, is very appealing. It feels a lot more like image making. Having a (albeit somewhat limited) choice of substrates for my images, gives me more of a hand in the process. If I were more obsessed, I would be making my own paper too. I primarily use RC paper for my prints, which is mass-produced, and generally without variations between samples. This predictability can be little sterile.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 14, 2015

To me, it's more organic and hand made. Most if not all alt processes doesn't depend on patented technologies and in today's terms, it's "Open source". Also, I like working with raw chemistry and the serendipitous nature makes each print unique. I love struggling with the process. I'm still pretty new to cyanotype, salt prints and ziatypes and I think it's going to take a lifetime of learning to make a perfect print. To me, it's very much like Chinese calligraphy.

cliveh · Oct 14, 2015

I think one of the answers to this question is to get back to original experimentation of halogen and other light sensitive media. Photography may have been discovered using silver based halogens, but there are many other paths it may have followed. For this reason the experimentation of those paths provides a new outcome.

Why do you all do 'alternative processes' rather than the norm?

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