Why do we...

Shaggysk8 · Aug 16, 2009

Why do we concern ourselves with what other people think, how our work is perceived & the subject matter which interests us most?

Should we really care? Some of us (me included) can't help but care, I over think everything I do and need it to have a purpose even if it's only for its self as an image. As I feel a piece of art is only art if its only purpose is itself.

I have no real understanding of how people think and what drives them, but would love to know more. So I just wondered what peoples ideas are on this matter.

Kind Regards
Paul

Nikanon · Aug 16, 2009

I find a piece of art, photos in particular, to be art when they encompass an emotional equivalence to the feeling the photographer first felt when encountering the subject. Also very fine quality I believe is a part of it. People concern themselves with what others think now more than ever with places like facebook and myspace and flickr, where they want to be and want their work to be accepted by everyone, people lose sight of true purpse of art and creation and quickly belt photos off the digital press into Photoshop to get them as others would like them , not how they want it. True and pure photography is almost lost to the masses now adays.

AgentX · Aug 16, 2009

Art in general or photography, even in a non-art context, is a medium of communication. Talking to yourself gets boring.

Shaggysk8 · Aug 16, 2009

its does get boring, but then I also bore my partner, she just likes to look not be bored.

Q.G. · Aug 16, 2009

I totally agree with what you say, AgentX.

But we should also be confident enough to form our 'opinion' without paying too much attention to how it might be received.
Express our views and not engage in socially correct conversation only.

So i'd say we should care, but not too much.

Overthinking things, seeking a purpose, is good, by the way.
But not something to do with too much conviction. Else you'll find you can't do anything.

Shaggysk8 · Aug 16, 2009

Q.G. said:
Overthinking things, seeking a purpose, is good, by the way.
But not something to do with too much conviction. Else you'll find you can't do anything.

This I have found to be very true over the past month or so. So I over think but also ignore myself and slowly I am find my creativity makes sense.

rphenning · Aug 16, 2009

I honestly don't care what people think about the photos I make, I love hearing people tell me they don't like a photo that I do because it can lead to worthy insight. That being said I am extremely picky about what I like. I shoot a moderate amount but rarely post much due to the fact that I don't see on the lightbox what I saw or felt when I was shooting it.

Bruce Watson · Aug 16, 2009

whose art is it?

It depends on your purpose. If you are trying to sell your art, you better care what your customers think or you might not have any. OTOH, if you are doing it because you are internally driven to do it, then what other people think of it is irrelevant.

Shaggysk8 · Aug 17, 2009

But why do we think these things, what makes us different from someone that just go out and take some photos and are just happy doing so. Does anyone else do it with everything in there life or is it just photograph?

Sirius Glass · Aug 17, 2009

I take photographs for myself. There are a few people that I listen to their advice and suggestions about composition. That is because they are either photographers that I respect or they have a strong background in art and art history.

When I give, trade or sell a photograph, the receivers and their friends really like my work. The rest I do not pay attention to.

Steve

Ed Sukach · Aug 17, 2009

Shaggysk8 said:
Why do we concern ourselves with what other people think, how our work is perceived & the subject matter which interests us most?
Should we really care? Some of us (me included) can't help but care, I over think everything I do and need it to have a purpose even if it's only for its self as an image. As I feel a piece of art is only art if its only purpose is itself.
I have no real understanding of how people think and what drives them, but would love to know more. So I just wondered what peoples ideas are on this matter.

Tiptoeing thruogh a sematic jungle...

I am not driven or motivated by what others think, at least that is not my primary motivation. I do what *I* want to do ... because I must. I could produce work to agree with a consensus ... but ... why? Consensus do not interest me.

"Concerned" ... not really, but I AM interested in others reaction to my work, especially on an emotional level.

I would have to disagree with the idea that "the only puropse of art is itself." I've found that exhibiting serves as an effective search tool. Those who "see" and/or "feel" - react - in something of the same way as I do are at some level, 'kindred souls", and discovering/ encountering them is a definite pleasure. Again, not a motivation, but, definitely, an extra added attraction.

sun of sand · Aug 17, 2009

Oneness
The problem is that most times people want to be united with everyone publicly but privately want to be separate
That switches back on itself in true truth
But the world ain't about real true truth so you get the schism

you have worldy desires and human needs in conflict and nobody can agree on whats what in order to get to the truth ...someone -in this world- always wants the truth to be his and will work to make it so -untruthfully

People say sunsets are beautiful
Near universal if not
But it's just a naturally occuring event
I don't believe one natural event can be more beautiful than another just due to the fact that without all natural events life ceases to exist
if life itself is a beautiful thing..

How many relgious sects are there? Why?

Art I believe is for others
It's your telling of what is important
a reminder
You don't need to remind yourself of something you know so I pretty much reject private artwork

I care about what others think
a great deal
I also never put too much stock in other peoples opinions
I know if I put in effort I come out good
If you have a great work ethic it all takes care of itself
you cannot be a gym rat and suck at everything gym

Art isn't so much a seeking of acceptance for your ideals etc as it is the command of respect for them
If you truly care you're never truly wrong

sun of sand · Aug 17, 2009

Think of a diary as private artwork some might say

I'd say imagine if you could openly say what is on your mind
I'm positive everything contained in a diary would be put to better use if it were out in the open
It's not private artwork it's just proof of a lack of something

Shaggysk8 · Aug 18, 2009

sun of sand said:
Oneness
Art isn't so much a seeking of acceptance for your ideals etc as it is the command of respect for them
If you truly care you're never truly wrong

I very much agree with that.

keithwms · Aug 18, 2009

Shaggysk8 said:
Why do we concern ourselves with what other people think, how our work is perceived & the subject matter which interests us most?

Well, when we photograph something we are (at least according to the etymologists!) writing with light. Writing connotes recording... making a permanent record, storing for later use.

Presumably 'graphing' was invented to share information. But not necessarily, maybe people write things just for their own amusement, or to remind themselves of what was? Whether the 'graph' is necessarily intended to be seen by another person, that of course depends on the motivation of the 'grapher.' People do write diaries, and not all diaries are autobiographies. Some are private.

Anyway, if we don't do the 'graphing' part then we are of course seeing. And there is a lot of value in that act alone, of course.

I have some photographs that were taken specifically to communicate a particular message. But I also have several images (and find that I am starting to make more of them) that were intended to provoke my own thoughts. They might lead to something that I would eventually show... also maybe not.

More often now, I am finding that the images that don't communicate something obvious are what I find most effective. I find that if I see an image and don't immediately understand why it "works" then I find it more interesting than one which shouts something very particular. Same goes for writing in general... sometimes we want a beach novel, sometimes we want something more complex.

Paul Jenkin · Aug 24, 2009

It depends who the "other people" are.

For example, a professional photographer will care to the utmost degree that he has produced photographs which meet his customer's brief and for which they are prepared to pay. Even those professionals who produce what I call "speculative" shots - for image banks, posters, etc. will always want to produce something with an audience's requirements in mind.

I've occasionally thought that being a professional is something to which to aspire. I've even had a go at being a wedding photographer and I doubt any job is much more focused (pun not intended) on the customer's requirements. However, I'm not a professional and the fact that I'm an amateur, I believe, gives me the freedom to shoot what pleases me. As a result, I could care less about what other people think.

I welcome constructive criticism as much as any praise that occasionally comes my way. However, so long as my photos aren't exploiting or mis-representing anyone, I'm happy just creating a photographic record of where I've been, what I've seen and how I feel about the experience.

Domenico Foschi · Aug 27, 2009

First and foremost: trying to please someone is a waste of time. It is by trying to please people that you will produce boring pictures. And all the same your pictures will be boring if you are trying to shock people.
There is also to say that you will never be able to please everybody but only a small group of people who resonate to your work.
SO, if your intent with the camera is to express yourself, do so, point your finger (or camera) to what makes you say:AH! and you'll be fine. People's opinion is not very important when you are honestly looking at your work and you like it.

Q.G. · Aug 27, 2009

First and foremost, doing things the way you want them to be done is indeed an attempt to please someone: yourself.
A desire to share what pleases you with others is a desire to find like minded people. The desire to have confirmed that you are not alone. A quite natural thingy.

And that is still assuming you do things for the heck of it, ignoring that we are social creatures, and most of the things we do are actually aimed at others, or at least done with social interaction (and a host of things that come with it. Thingies like recognition, and many others) 'in mind'.
The same reason, by the way, why we do not keep our thoughts to ourselves, and also want to hear other people's views. (As an illustration of this, Domenico, why do you post no less than three links to places where we can form an opinion about you and your work? )

So people's opinion is very important.

Sirius Glass · Aug 27, 2009

Ricky Nelson said well in "Garden Party"

But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself

Reference: http://www.lyricsdepot.com/ricky-nelson/garden-party.html

Steve

Paul Jenkin · Aug 28, 2009

Sirius Glass said:
Ricky Nelson said well in "Garden Party"

But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself

Reference: http://www.lyricsdepot.com/ricky-nelson/garden-party.html

Steve

Steve,

The irony is that "Garden Party" was Ricky Nelson's final top 40 hit in 1972. It was written after he was booed whilst promoting his new songs at a gig in Madison Square Gardens, when the audience wanted a smattering of his greatest hits as well.

He eventually died in an air crash at the end of 1985 whilst on tour in the southern states of the USA. In the intervening period, he endured an acrimonious divorce (in which his wife left taking the kids), years of debt and a heavy gigging schedule to keep afloat financially.

Consequently, and hugely ironically, he suffered ultimately for his honesty and desire to move forward. So, was recording "Garden Party" a pyrrhic victory or the catalyst for his future troubles? Also ironically, the one thing that provided him with continuing income wasn't his few new recordings, it was his original hits - and gigging them to the audience who remembered him from his heyday.

I'm not suggesting that the sentiment expressed in "Garden Party" is wrong, however, there is a need to satisfy customers' expectations - even if it's only to "keep the wolf from the door". Experimentation and self-fulfilment is also important - and occasionally financially rewarding - but doing one thing to the exclusion of the other seems like a recipe for problems.

Sirius Glass · Aug 28, 2009

Paul Jenkin said:
I'm not suggesting that the sentiment expressed in "Garden Party" is wrong, however, there is a need to satisfy customers' expectations - even if it's only to "keep the wolf from the door". Experimentation and self-fulfilment is also important - and occasionally financially rewarding - but doing one thing to the exclusion of the other seems like a recipe for problems.

Paul,

I keep it simple. I have only one customer [soon to become two]. He is happy with what I send him. He sends me the off-roading parts that I want, so I only pay for the installation labor. That way one expensive hobby helps pay for another expensive hobby.

The rest of the photographic work is for myself.

Steve

Sirius Glass · Aug 28, 2009

Paul Jenkin said:
I'm not suggesting that the sentiment expressed in "Garden Party" is wrong, however, there is a need to satisfy customers' expectations - even if it's only to "keep the wolf from the door". Experimentation and self-fulfilment is also important - and occasionally financially rewarding - but doing one thing to the exclusion of the other seems like a recipe for problems.

Paul,

I keep it simple. I have only one customer [soon to become two]. He is happy with what I send him. He sends me the off-roading parts that I want, so I only pay for the installation labor. That way one expensive hobby helps pay for another expensive hobby.

The rest of the photographic work is for myself.

Note to self: See about getting photography to pay for ski trips.

Steve

Why do we...

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