Why do I want it so bad?

cfclark · Apr 12, 2010

Thomas Bertilsson said:
It is definitely not for aesthetic reasons...

But that feeling when you forward the film winding crank, when you focus the lens, or set the aperture... It feels so much more natural and intuitive.

I think it is for aesthetic reasons, it's just that the aesthetic reasons have to do with more than what comes out on the print.

PVia · Apr 12, 2010

Thomas,

I enjoy my M2, a nice tool. I wanted something smaller to take along with me in more places and having a lens that's a little faster, the Zeiss Planar 50/2. So far, with printing up to 11x14 I haven't noticed anything to diss the smaller neg...

Mark Fisher · Apr 12, 2010

Thomas .... if you can afford it (and a lens), just get it. We all could be using digital, but we all also love the craft of photography. Part of the joy of the craft (at least for me) is in the tools. I used a Mamiya C220 for a while and it worked well, but I never really enjoyed it. I eventually ended up with a Hasselblad. Is it all that much better than the Mamiya? Probably, but not enough to make a huge difference. Do I enjoy the journey more now? Definitely. Enjoy the journey....

mhanc · Apr 13, 2010

Thomas -

When holding vertically, my left hand is on top and my right hand usually ends up covering the rangefinder window that is used to capture the ghost image for focusing. You can either adjust where your fingers are or use the thumb for the shutter release which puts the hand in a position that does not cover the rangefinder window.

P.S. You have my permission to buy one.

Bateleur · Apr 13, 2010

You have convinced me, you need one...

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 13, 2010

So, size really does matter?

Chazzy said:
Mr. Bertilsson, if you really want help in resisting temptation, just keep reminding yourself of how teensy-weensy the 35mm negative is. Otherwise, enjoy yourself and have some fun with it.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 13, 2010

My eye glasses are polarized, and have Crizal coating which is an anti reflex coating, much like what's on your camera lenses today. (I even believe they are multi coated).

I'll check into getting a pair of cheezy glasses for photography that have plain jane glass in them.

Lee L said:
Wondering if that could be an odd polarization problem, perhaps with coated glasses?

Lee

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 13, 2010

John,

I'm still trying to abide by the 'less is more' on the equipment side. This camera is just more portable and enjoyable to use hand held than the Pentax. The Pentax is what I'll put on the tripod.

But you're right. I'm adding. I'll get scorched, I'm sure.

jnanian said:
thomas

i guess your "1 camera 1 lens"
is now out the window
i thought you were simplifying
enjoy yourself, whatever you decide to do ..

john

Lee L · Apr 13, 2010

Thomas Bertilsson said:
My eye glasses are polarized, and have Crizal coating which is an anti reflex coating, much like what's on your camera lenses today. (I even believe they are multi coated).

I'll check into getting a pair of cheezy glasses for photography that have plain jane glass in them.

First see if you can rotate your glasses relative to the viewfinder and see if it's actually polarization at work, killing the rangefinder image.

Lee

benjiboy · Apr 13, 2010

Sorry Thomas I do photography, psychiatry will cost you extra

Tim Gray · Apr 13, 2010

Thomas Bertilsson said:
One thing that irritates the b-jeebus out of me, though, is that I can't focus the durned thing while in vertical mode AND wearing eye glasses (blind as a bat without them). The ghost image disappears.

As others have pointed out... It might be you are covering on of the windows with a finger. You'd probably know if you were doing it. Another option could be the old RF patch flare. I usually only get it while holding mine in landscape, while switching to vertical makes it go away, but it could happen the other way depending on the light.

Lastly, it could be that you aren't centering your eye quite right when you hold it in vertical.

The polarization of the glasses thing might be a possibility I guess. That at least is easy to test by rotating your glasses instead of the camera...

david James lee · Apr 13, 2010

i am not suze orman, but i think you should get it.

Pupfish · Apr 13, 2010

If you're into film and printing, I'd suggest you try a well-cared-for Pentax LX (and an SMC-M or SMC-A 50 f/1.4 or or 24mm f/2.8 or 85mm f/1.4) out for a week before deciding the Leica is a must. Or a P645N.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 13, 2010

Pupfish. I have a Pentax KX, and use 28mm f/3.5, 35mm f/3.5, 55mm f/2, and 100mm f/2.8 already. In my opinion Pentax' best glass. I haven't used the 85mm f/1.4 though.

The Pentax is nice to use, albeit a bit clunky. The Leica is smoooooth.

I use Hasselblad for my medium format needs.

I'm not interested in directly comparing lens sharpness or contrast. I'm interested in a tool that works well. I am adding this tool (most likely) to my heavily trimmed and small collection of super cameras I already have. Not because I want sharper pictures, but because I will enjoy it more.

Nicholas Lindan · Apr 13, 2010

Releasing the Cows
(Told by Master Thich Nhat Hanh)

One day the Buddha was sitting in the wood with thirty or forty monks. They had an excellent lunch and they were enjoying the company of each other. There was a farmer passing by and the farmer was very unhappy. He asked the Buddha and the monks whether they had seen his cows passing by. The Buddha said they had not seen any cows passing by.

The farmer said, "Monks, I'm so unhappy. I have twelve cows and I don't know why they all ran away. I have also a few acres of a sesame seed plantation and the insects have eaten up everything. I suffer so much I think I am going to kill myself.

The Buddha said, "My friend, we have not seen any cows passing by here. You might like to look for them in the other direction."

So the farmer thanked him and ran away, and the Buddha turned to his monks and said, "My dear friends, you are the happiest people in the world. You don't have any cows to lose. If you have too many cows to take care of, you will be very busy.

"That is why, in order to be happy, you have to learn the art of cow releasing (laughter). You release the cows one by one. In the beginning you thought that those cows were essential to your happiness, and you tried to get more and more cows. But now you realize that cows are not really conditions for your happiness; they constitute an obstacle for your happiness. That is why you are determined to release your cows."

--

Collecting your stray cows...

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 13, 2010

I knew it! Cameras are like cows!

BrandonJ · Apr 13, 2010

Robert Hall said:
Both a Volkswagen and a Ferrari will get you down the road; the ride, however, is much more enjoyable in the Ferrari.

But the little quirks of the VW make you feel at home. It's not the ride that matters it is what you feel comfortable with. If you don't believe this ask any holga or diana shooter on this site. I'd say follow your heart and pick it up and if worse comes to worse this website is chalk full of people willing to take it off your hands.

KWhitmore · Apr 13, 2010

Nicholas Lindan said:
Releasing the Cows
(Told by Master Thich Nhat Hanh)

One day the Buddha was sitting in the wood with thirty or forty monks. They had an excellent lunch and they were enjoying the company of each other. There was a farmer passing by and the farmer was very unhappy. He asked the Buddha and the monks whether they had seen his cows passing by. The Buddha said they had not seen any cows passing by.

The farmer said, "Monks, I'm so unhappy. I have twelve cows and I don't know why they all ran away. I have also a few acres of a sesame seed plantation and the insects have eaten up everything. I suffer so much I think I am going to kill myself.

The Buddha said, "My friend, we have not seen any cows passing by here. You might like to look for them in the other direction."

So the farmer thanked him and ran away, and the Buddha turned to his monks and said, "My dear friends, you are the happiest people in the world. You don't have any cows to lose. If you have too many cows to take care of, you will be very busy.

"That is why, in order to be happy, you have to learn the art of cow releasing (laughter). You release the cows one by one. In the beginning you thought that those cows were essential to your happiness, and you tried to get more and more cows. But now you realize that cows are not really conditions for your happiness; they constitute an obstacle for your happiness. That is why you are determined to release your cows."

--

Collecting your stray cows...

Great story! I released my cows 10+ years ago when I became vegetarian...back to our regularly scheduled cameras.

cchisena · Apr 13, 2010

What to want

Having owned over the last 30 years a lot of cameras; the desire for a Leica rangefinder is totally understandable. I personally believe you will see a difference in image quality also.There really is something quite special about that feel.The reason I don't use them anymore is I prefer my Mamiya 7 and it's lenses even more,the larger ngative is way better.But this also needs to be taken with a little salt; as film type,developers, and technique make a difference.I've seen sensational pictures from large and small formats,as we know the person doing the work makes a difference.The question I think is how much time and how many cameras we can use well;I struggle more with that.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 13, 2010

Nice post. Thanks. The larger negatives are nice indeed, but I have recently witnessed some unbelievable work in the 35mm format, stuff that makes me wonder about why I need a bigger negative.
I could have sworn it was a 4x5 negative, or at least a Tmax 100 medium format negative, but it was Tmax 400 from 35mm. I was so perplexed by what I was beholding that I started to think in terms of doing the same thing myself. So here I am, shooting 35mm, looking critically at the steps in my processing chain, and I am a good leap there already with much improved print quality just from being very careful in lighting, exposure, and processing of the film.

It is a lot about technique, and it is indeed a lot about eking the most in performance from what is available to us, but most of all it's about making pictures all together, and enjoying it.
The Leica has done the same for my hand held 35mm photography that the Hasselblad did for my MF photography (switching from a Mamiya 645). Not in terms of picture quality, it's good enough from both, but just in terms of pure enjoyment, which makes me think in more positive terms of the whole experience, and which subsequently improves the pictures because of how free I feel with the camera. It's as though the camera isn't even there.

- Thomas

cchisena said:
Having owned over the last 30 years a lot of cameras; the desire for a Leica rangefinder is totally understandable. I personally believe you will see a difference in image quality also.There really is something quite special about that feel.The reason I don't use them anymore is I prefer my Mamiya 7 and it's lenses even more,the larger ngative is way better.But this also needs to be taken with a little salt; as film type,developers, and technique make a difference.I've seen sensational pictures from large and small formats,as we know the person doing the work makes a difference.The question I think is how much time and how many cameras we can use well;I struggle more with that.

pentaxuser · Apr 13, 2010

I am e-mailing Mrs Bertilsson right now so she can deny you access to a certain Roger Hicks on this subject, otherwise all the household budget may go on such cameras! There clearly is something special about these cameras. It seems that once bitten by this Leica bug there is no cure.

pentaxuser

sangetsu · Apr 13, 2010

The problem with getting a new Leica is that it is just the beginning. If you get the camera, then you need a lens. Then you need another lens, and perhaps yet another. What started out as an expensive investment then becomes a very expensive investment.

For myself, photography is a very part-time hobby, but over a couple of years I have found a way to squeeze a little money out of it. I'm now at the point that I earn enough to pay for my cameras, lenses, and other related items. I've replaced my 35mm SLR kit with an M4 and 3 lenses; a 21/3.4 Super Angulon, a 35/2.8 Summaron, and a 50/2 DR Summicron.

Personally, I don't think the quality of the images from my Leica kit are any better at all that those I got from my Canon or Olympus SLR kits. The only advantages I enjoy with the Leica are quieter operation, more compact (slightly) size, and that sense of "oh-yeah" when the numerous DSLR hobby photographers I see on the weekends stare at/comment about my equipment (it's nice to get such attention with my clothes still on).

The comparison between a VW and a Ferrari does not really apply here, a camera is a far simpler tool with much less in the way of bells and whistles. Comparing wrenches would be better. A Craftsman wrench is well-made, and is sufficient for the job. A Snap-On wrench does the same thing in the same way, but at 10 times the price. The real difference is essentially aesthetic.

MartinCrabtree · Apr 14, 2010

Having earned a living with tools I must beg to differ.A Snap-On wrench does a better job for a professional.It feels better in the hand and works better on the fastener.Being challenged to prove the "feel" aspect I was blindfolded and handed Craftsman,Mac,Cornwell ect. and was able to immediately tell the difference.This doesn't extend to all the Snap-On tools but the wrenches and sockets are superior.Not to mention priced beyond what even a stalwart supoporter such as myself is willing to pay.Fortunately I have most of what I need.Sadly for the Snap-On man Ebay and Craigslist are my tool dealers now.

Sorry for the hijack,we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 14, 2010

I hope you're wrong. I know what lenses I like from using the Pentax kit. There is a 50mm on the M4-P I'm currently using, and I plan on getting a 90mm eventually. The idea is to use this camera for anything hand held.

So I will not get wide angle lenses for it, or anything else. That is definitely settled before I'm getting into this. I do like to use an 18mm lens for the Pentax, but that's with tripod use and ND filters and long exposures.

Thanks for your advice. It is much appreciated! I think we both share the love of good tools.

- Thomas

sangetsu said:
The problem with getting a new Leica is that it is just the beginning. If you get the camera, then you need a lens. Then you need another lens, and perhaps yet another. What started out as an expensive investment then becomes a very expensive investment.

Rolleiflexible · Apr 14, 2010

Thomas, if you do go down this road (remember cows),
and are looking for a 50mm lens, try an early Summitar.
They are cheap and plentiful and grossly underrated --
they are something of a bridge between the quirkiness
of the old Summars and the modern Summicrons, very
sharp, but with some character. It costs little to try --
if you do, look for an early model with the round iris,
as the later models suffer from edgy bokeh.

Why do I want it so bad?

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