Why did I buy a Nikon F2? (Rant)

[marcmarc]

Oh yeah I remember. I wanted to start shooting 135 again. I thought it would make a nice occasional break from my usual medium format shooting. I wanted a solid, mechanical SLR camera. The legendary Nikon F2 was one name that kept being suggested. After doing a bit of research I picked up a body at a local camera swap meet in Aug of '08. I bought into the reasoning that a camera with electronics would be toast if the electronics ever shorted out or somehow failed while a mechanical camera will always be repairable. I also got lucky with a good price on a DE-1 prism finder (I use a hand held meter).

So I picked up a body that appeared to be in decent shape for $200 and immediately sent to Sover Wong in the UK for an overhaul. I figured when the camera came back I'd have a great, sturdy camera that I could shoot worry free and maintenance free for a least several years given my shooting style and volume.

Well, it wasn't long before issues cropped up. I started seeing thin, well defined strips along the edges of some of my prints. It appeared that the density on my negs were a little thinner along an edge compared to the rest of the neg. Completely intermittent. I was still under warranty with Sover Wong but I really didn't want to shell out the high cost of international shipping once again. I was referred to a Nikon trained and authorized repair shop across town. Shutter bump was the term they told me was happening; it had something to do with part of the shutter moving too fast from it's starting point. So they fixed it and did another general cleaning. All seemed fine until about 5 months later when the same symptom reappeared. Luckily, it was (barely) still under warranty. They serviced it again no hassle. I take the camera out to try my new 35mm f2 ZF Distagon lens and to my surprise now I have random sections of my roll completely blank! Back to shop it goes with the roll I just described. This was in Nov. The camera is still in the shop. I called today and there's a problem now with the shutter break and they are having trouble locating parts and they will decide how to proceed.

About a month ago I ordered another F2 from KEH who I've purchased from many times. At least I'll have something to shoot with in the meantime I thought. I went with a bargain graded body for $99. I had to send the KEH body back because it showed signs of rust on the back hinges and on part of the lens release button. I'm awaiting the replacement.

So there you have it. If I didn't buy the $800 ZF lens, I would have just cut my losses and I'd have a nice F2 paperweight. Now I have one body that is in the shop more then it's in my hands being used. I have another on the way and I can only hope this one will not have any issues. All I wanted was a nice mechanical 35mm camera to shoot maybe 10 rolls a month with. This is costing about the same as the upkeep on my car and I just wonder how many bodies will I have to keep around for parts before I can be confident that whatever body I'm using will work correctly.

It also made me have another scary thought. Are any 35mm slrs even being made anymore? With so many manufactures stopping production of 35mm cameras and like Nikon not suporting the existing ones, I see the death of 135 film being the result of there simply not being any working cameras left to shoot with. All cameras eventually fail and need work. As I'm finding out with my first F2 (which by the way I absolutely loved shooting with) there comes a point of diminishing returns and I'm just not in a position to keep throwing money away on temporary repairs and spare bodies that may also need big $$ in upkeep.

 

[SchwinnParamount]

I have about a dozen Nikon bodies (F2 through F100 and everything in-between) and with the exception of the crappy Nikon EM, they all still work flawlessly. I think you may have gotten a lemon.

Don't let your experience sour you on the idea of the 35mm camera. They are still being made but at much lower volumes. The older 35mm cameras out there are generally still going strong. Lots and lots of 35mm film is being sold and shot still.

 

[Colin Corneau]

What's with the hysterics? As said above, sounds like you got a lemon (a very rare occurrence with a Nikon).

If it's a fully manual camera you want (and I don't blame you) then there's plenty of selections. Anything from an F, another F2 to an FM or FM2.

They come up all the time. Any camera that old, you have to know when to just cut your losses lest you end up with a money pit. Nikons, especially with their fully manual bodies, make excellently durable cameras. Hang in there.

 

[Chris Lange]

I have a Nikkormat FT2 that I've dropped, banged, and used in all sorts of weather, and it's still clicking along perfectly. Meter still works great too...if it comes down to it, I can fully recommend one of the Nikkormat bodies.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Well I know you won't want to hear this, but...

I purchased a brand new Nikon F2 w/DP1 prism in 1974. Not long after I also purchased an MD2/MB1 motor drive combination. I used this body, both with and without the motor drive, for over thirty years straight. Then I decided it might be a good time for a CLA. When I got the camera back the service tech informed me that, while he had indeed cleaned, lubed and adjusted it, it really didn't need the attention as everything was within tolerance and working just fine.

I'm not sure if I'll even live long enough to see the need for a second servicing...

Ken

 

[darkosaric]

I have 4 nikons, and never got any problem whatsoever. But I am planing to buy leica M6 soon - if I get in same problems as you with F2 ... I will be very angry. You just had bad luck

 

[John_Nikon_F]

As others have said, it just sounds like you got one that may've been made on Friday, right before everyone went home. I've owned four F2's, and none have experienced that problem. A couple were actually used professionally, and still took perfectly good shots. I've also had many F's, including my current body, which is the brassy one shown as my avatar. Most of those were also used professionally, and still work/worked perfectly. I've had two or three F's which were in decent cosmetic shape, but that had shutter issues. Namely the usual slow shutter speed problem where the camera acts as if it's on "T", instead of B, 1, 2, 4, etc. My luck with F3's hasn't been as good, but, they're still much more reliable than the Pentax I had when I was growing up, with its jamming problem that'd occur as soon as I hit frame 14 on certain rolls of film.

Maybe the thing to do is to buy a body from Sover Wong. One that he fully overhauled. Send him the lemon as a trade, and get a good one in exchange.

-J

 

[Rol_Lei Nut]

Of the many cameras (several dozen) I've used over the years, only a very few had "serious" problems (meaning they were unusable and needed professional care).
Many problems were of the DIY category: Changing foam seals and tweaking the light meter adjustments.

I've only used prosfessional service for the following: Rolleiflex 3003 (burnt-out electronics), Nikon Photommic Ftn (worn meter resisitors), Nikon FE2 (dead shutter), Leicaflex SL (meter needle jammed), Leningrad (broken spring motor drive).
I've had the following CLA'd, but only the first really needed it (occasional shutter banding): Leicaflex SL2, Pentax Spotmatic, Zorki 3, Zorki 4.

All these cameras were well over 20 years old when serviced. Barring surprises, I expect the vast majority of them to keep working for several more decades without serious trouble.
The better made mechanical cameras, unless they have been worn out by pros shooting a million+ shutter cycles, should last almost indefinitely with a CLA every few decades.

No fear for 135 format film!!!

 

[titrisol]

Be not afraid of the electronic cameras from Nikon.
While the F are brick-hard the FM series are well built enough.
I personally prefer the FE series which is physically similar to the FM but has electronic shutters.
Also check the ones that sell real cheap like the N2000 and N4000 which are greatly undervalued and can work great as backup bodies.

 

[Jerevan]

I think I would have sent the camera back to Sover, even if the cost of shipping was high. You'd have it back within a couple of weeks with the return shipping, instead of waiting for someone trying to locate spares. The "there's a problem now with the shutter break" sounds like trouble, but not with the camera itself.

Otherwise, I second Johns advice: try to exchange this for another one from Sover. The F2 is a great camera.

 

[lxdude]

Keep in mind, the F2 hasn't been made in 30 years. That's why some parts are hard to locate, and might be why you are encountering some problems. With anything that old, you may have some problems.
I try to gauge the amount of use on old cameras by general feel and by looking at wear on the pressure plate, though there's no way to know if the back is original. A machine can look and feel good and have problems from sitting unused for years. Usually, a CLA will be all that's needed, but it doesn't guarantee reliability. A CLA is not a rebuild, and in addition even the best repair people are fallible. Also, problems can crop up coincidentally, and not be something which can be easily anticipated by repair people.

Without knowing its complete history, you just don't know what your F2's been through. There's no way to know if it was a lemon (unlikely), just worn out, or something else. I bought a camera cheap, sent it for a CLA, and had to pay a lot to fix unseen problems from a prior amateur "servicing". It happens.

If you don't have confidence in the one you have, sell it and get another or another Nikon body. Regarding electronics, if they quit, replacements are cheap. A fairly sophisticated machine like the N8008s/F801s is dirt cheap. Also, electronics in many old cameras are still going strong 30 or more years after manufacture.

Most F2's that weren't thrashed will be very reliable after a good CLA. And as you've noticed, with the plain prism they're very sweet.

 

[Sirius Glass]

OP, consider saving your first F2 as a source for parts for the next good F2 you get. That way if you have another repair in the future that needs hard to get parts, you have them.

Steve

 

[Pumal]

I've used mine since I was a kid. Never a problem. No CLA yet.

 

[benveniste]

All I wanted was a nice mechanical 35mm camera to shoot maybe 10 rolls a month with. This is costing about the same as the upkeep on my car and I just wonder how many bodies will I have to keep around for parts before I can be confident that whatever body I'm using will work correctly.

While F2's were extremely solidly built, they were predominantly sold to and used by professionals. They in turn used them as their "day-in, day-out" cameras. No doubt, there are a few "cream puff" F2's out there, but as a first-order approximation assume any used F2 out there has over 30,000 shots on the clock and took a few hits for the team.

If you want to stay with Nikon and a pure mechanical camera, I suggest looking instead at a used FM2n. Physically, FM2n's weren't built as solidly as F2's, but I believe today's survivors are more likely to be reliable than F2's for several reasons.

The first reason is the shutter. The FM2 was the first SLR to use a honeycomb titanium shutter. While it was a significant advance over the F2's, the FM2n was better still. It could be damaged fairly easily by physical trauma, but such damage is readily visible.

The second reason is that because of the lighter build, wear and abuse is more readily detectible. A quick look at the pressure plate will give you a good idea of how often the camera was used. Brassing showed up a bit earlier than on F2's as well.

A third reason is simply that the FM2 is a newer model.

But the main reason FM2n's are more likely to be reliable today is that many more were used either as backup cameras or by hobbyists. Especially in the latter case, they often ended up as "closet dwellers" for a decade or more after the buyer lost interest or decided they wanted more automation.

An FM3A is likely to be more reliable still, but unlike run-of-production FM2n's they retain substantial collector value.

So in summary, unless you're going to take advantage of professional features of the F2 (use of non-AI lenses, interchangeable finders, 100% finder coverage, etc), I don't recommend it as a part-time "user" camera.

 

[marcmarc]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, it seems like I may have been stuck with a lemon. Hopefully my next body will work out.

When I noticed the blank frames on my roll after the second time the shop worked on it, I took the lens cap off, opened the back, and pointed the camera at a lamp and went up and down the shutter speeds. The shutter didn't move at all at the top speed of 1/2000. This was not the issue I originally had with the body so my first thought was maybe they incorrectly repaired it. After all, it occurred on the first roll I shot after picking it up.

 

[johnnywalker]

To me, Benveniste's logic is right on the mark.

 

[nolanr66]

I have friends that buy used gear all the time and it just works great. However I bought 5 used SRT's in a row and none of them worked fully. I had one repaired and it did not work when I got it back. I then moved up to a Minolta x370, x700, x570, XGM and each of those camera's required repair that did not last however or was still defective on return. I then went to Nikon with a Mint appearance FE2 that I had repaired twice in 18 months and sold as a non functional camera and finally bought a new D200 which works great. But after a while I wanted to get back to film so I bought a F100 from KEH that I had to return. I then thought why not a N80 and I bought one of those and it was broken and I returned it. Finally a friend gave me a N80 that works properly and I use it all the time. Just last month I bought another used F100 and had to return it because it had problems. So after all that I have a N80 and a D200 and they both work properly. I had better luck with used lenses however I just purchase new lenses these days but I really have enough lenses that are in my price range. I would like a super tele but they are to expensive so I will not purchase one. Basically I would not even think of buying a F2. Beautiful camera but I already know it would not work if I bought it so I will just save my money.

 

[Excalibur2]

***with the exception of the crappy Nikon EM***

Hey! It's a great simple camera and been in my family for about 20 years. I would have used it more if Nikon lenses were cheap.

 

[Joe Grodis]

I've always wondered just how long you can keep a Nikon going. I mean, surely there are limits to how much can be repaired in shop. Lets say your F2 was used heavily for years shooting a couple million pics... can a shop really get it back into factory specs? Just a thought. I had a similar experience with a Contax II... first black vertical lines then horizontal lines, then irregular frame spacing, then light leaks then finally... torn film upon rewinding. Once all was repaired the left corner of "some" frames were very dark. After that I calmly placed the camera back on the shelf and there it sits today. Some times you get a lemon no matter how wonderful the brand.

 

[Rol_Lei Nut]

I bought 5 used SRT's in a row and none of them worked fully. I had one repaired and it did not work when I got it back. I then moved up to a Minolta x370, x700, x570, XGM and each of those camera's required repair... <Long horrifying tale snipped>

VADE RETRO! Keep your distance from my cameras!!!
Have yourself checked for extragalactic levels of magnetism or ultrasound emission...

 

[mikebarger]

Guess I made a good choice not upgrading my Nikon F's.

Mike

 

[cooltouch]

Welp, like most other respondents to this thread, I too own a Nikon F2, S/N 71xxxx, so it's an early one. I bought it about 20 years ago, and have used it regularly since then, and it's never missed a lick. I've owned a few F2s over the years, and never had a problem with any of them. I've owned a couple of FEs and FMs and F3s, and all of these cameras have been stone-cold reliable.

I've also owned a LOT of Canon cameras, bot FD and EOS, and I'd have to say I've had the same results with them, including a couple of old F-1s that looked like they'd been through the press corps wars before I bought them -- and they never once missed a lick.

In fact the ONLY cameras I've had problems with have been d*****l. My first broke just after the warranty expired. My second has become balky, but is still hanging in there, albeit just barely, after about five years of use, and my most recent -- my first DSLR -- has been back for warranty repair THREE TIMES in less than a year. I feel rather certain that my Nikon F2 and my Canon F-1 will still be functioning perfectly long after my DSLR has bitten the dust for the last time.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

It sounds like none of the CLA's or repairs have found out what is really wrong with the camera. It has probably not been stripped down to the level that will reveal the broken/stuck part and the problem with the camera is obscure. One definition of the lemon: it's not that its built wrong, but no-one can find out what's wrong and fix it. There is also an adage in engineering "If you fix anything long enough you will break it."

If it still has problems then you may be better off selling the camera on (if your conscience allows it).

Obviously the best F2s to buy are the ones that have been used the least and these command a high price. Bodies in the $200 range are a bit of a crap-shoot.

 

[fotch]

If it was a lemon, it would of been a parts camera long ago, more than likely, used and a bit dirty and perhaps, has some worn parts. Probably best to stick to one repair person.

 

[k_jupiter]

The solution is easy. Get a 25 YO FM2 and just shoot. That camera is indestructible. I've had mine since 1986 and never in the shop, that titanium shutter is like the EverReady Wabbit. It just keeps on going... And if the meter ever fails, you still have 100% shutter speeds.

tim in san jose