Why cold light sources?

mono · Jan 17, 2006

Why should I use cold light heads in the darkroom?
What´s the difference to diffusion heads?
Can I see any difference?
Thank you!

Donald Miller · Jan 17, 2006

mono said:
Why should I use cold light heads in the darkroom?
What´s the difference to diffusion heads?
Can I see any difference?
Thank you!

You will not see any difference in a diffusion head compared to a cold light source...both use diffuse light as opposed to collimated light in the case of a condenser enlarger.

Cold light heads do have one disadvantage to conventional diffusion heads. That being that the light intensity is not as stable.

Donald Qualls · Jan 17, 2006

And cold light heads have one significant advantage over tungsten, too -- they generate FAR less heat. Very important in summer, in a darkroom with little ventilation, much less direct air conditioning...

Claire Senft · Jan 17, 2006

OTOH tungsten heads do not require special power supplies or stabilizers..I am referring here to the type of enlarger that uses an illumination system similar to that use with Elwood enlargers.

A dichroic colorhead or VC head is really very nice diffusion head indeed..easy to use very flexibe, very stable.

In my experience the nicest enlarging head I have ever used in terms of ease of use, repeatiblity and contrast range is the Beseler/Minolta 45A. It could use more power for say 16X20 prints from 35mm or when dealing with excessively dense negatives or a slow paper but they are just unbelievely nice for both color and VC work. the xenon bulbs may no longer be available or may be impossible to find in the near future.

A coldlight head may be workable for color but it will be a PITA. The Aristo three color unit with red, green and blue tubes may well be an exception to being akward when printing in color with a cold light unit. A cold light that is not designed for VC work will not be as handy to use annd may cause you to have to devise a method to be able use of acetate filters above the negative. Below the lens filters can be problematic.

blansky · Jan 17, 2006

Also with a cold light head you don't get negative "pop" and generally it is more forgiving of dust.

Michael

rhphoto · Jan 17, 2006

I've used both over the years, and always preferred the "look" of negs printed with diffuse light. I know some will disagree with this, but I think you get more separation in the high values with diffuse light over condenser light. In other words, condenser illumination tends to block up the high values. Of course you can develop your negatives less, but why not just use the diffuse source? I also understand a cold light is more intense, meaning your exposures will be shorter, due to the fact it is a bluish light, which the paper is more sensitive to.

esanford · Jan 17, 2006

mono said:
Why should I use cold light heads in the darkroom?
What´s the difference to diffusion heads?
Can I see any difference?
Thank you!

Simple way to find out... If you now use a condenser enlarger make a print as you usually do. Find another photographer that has a cold light head. Go to his/her darkroom and print the same negative. Observe the difference....

When I did this, the difference between cold light and condenser enlarger was so great, I purchased a cold light system and threw my condensers in the trash!!! Enlarged prints from a cold light enlarger, resemble contact prints with more gentle gradations from black to white.

Donald Miller · Jan 17, 2006

esanford said:
Simple way to find out... If you now use a condenser enlarger make a print as you usually do. Find another photographer that has a cold light head. Go to his/her darkroom and print the same negative. Observe the difference....

When I did this, the difference between cold light and condenser enlarger was so great, I purchased a cold light system and threw my condensers in the trash!!! Enlarged prints from a cold light enlarger, resemble contact prints with more gentle gradations from black to white.

Ahh...I knew this couldn't last...the war druims are sounding...the cold light camp fires a shot across the bpw of the condenser crowd...Will there be a response?...of course, you bet!!!...My experience has been exactly opposite that of yours. That is why I use a condenser light system...and I am willing to prove that mine is bigger then yours... So there!!!!

Donald Miller · Jan 17, 2006

rhphoto said:
I've used both over the years, and always preferred the "look" of negs printed with diffuse light. I know some will disagree with this, but I think you get more separation in the high values with diffuse light over condenser light. In other words, condenser illumination tends to block up the high values. Of course you can develop your negatives less, but why not just use the diffuse source? I also understand a cold light is more intense, meaning your exposures will be shorter, due to the fact it is a bluish light, which the paper is more sensitive to.

I don't buy this in my experience...of course your experience is your experience...I will say though that I just finished printing an 8X10 from a 4X5 neg and my exposure time was 1 and 9 tenths second at F22...is your cold light that fast? One thousand watts of halogen does the trick.

esanford · Jan 17, 2006

Donald Miller said:
Ahh...I knew this couldn't last...the war druims are sounding...the cold light camp fires a shot across the bpw of the condenser crowd...Will there be a response?...of course, you bet!!!...My experience has been exactly opposite that of yours. That is why I use a condenser light system...and I am willing to prove that mine is bigger then yours... So there!!!!

Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! At least this is more civil then arguing politics... That's why I said, like my mentor Fred Picker, Try it and make your own choice...

Claire Senft · Jan 17, 2006

Perhaps Miller and Sanford can supply of photo each item with a scale to determine size and we can get this settled. Mr Miller is ready to offer proof. Mr Sanford can we count on you to show us yours? Perhaps we can find some female member of Apug who will serve as judges on the importance of these size matters.

esanford · Jan 17, 2006

Claire Senft said:
Perhaps Miller and Sanford can supply of photo each item with a scale to determine size and we can get this settled. Mr Miller is ready to offer proof. Mr Sanford can we count on you to show us yours? Perhaps we can find some female member of Apug who will serve as judges on the importance of these size matters.

Ms. Senft if you would be so kind as to judge, I would be more then willing to participate.....

!!!!!

Donald Miller · Jan 17, 2006

Claire Senft said:
Perhaps Miller and Sanford can supply of photo each item with a scale to determine size and we can get this settled. Mr Miller is ready to offer proof. Mr Sanford can we count on you to show us yours? Perhaps we can find some female member of Apug who will serve as judges on the importance of these size matters.

I insist on female participation...make no mistake about that...

Les McLean · Jan 17, 2006

In the 30 years that I have been making prints I have used all three light sources and would endorse esanford's comments. I have never matched the smoothness of the tonality in a print made using a cold light enalarger with any other light source. Perhaps it is my printing that is at fault when using the other sources.

This has always been a very emotive subject in photographic circles and I'm not going to rubbish anyone's opinion here, there is no point, we are all entitled to speak as we feel. Nor will I say that the other light sources are not good, they are very good, but the gentleness of tonality produced by cold cathode cannot be matched by any other light source.

Charles Webb · Jan 17, 2006

I echo Les's comment with over fifty years of my own experience! I know what works best for me, anyone else is welcome to their own findings.

Charlie...........................

WarEaglemtn · Jan 17, 2006

"Why should I use cold light heads in the darkroom?"

It helps combat global warming.

Claire Senft · Jan 17, 2006

Please Sanford, I already have enough personal issues without you removing my gender conflicts. I am an older person. I much prefer being adressed as Miss Senft. I guess that I am just not your ordinary old maid.

Mr Miller what would you recommend this female use as a gauge to determine size?

esanford · Jan 17, 2006

Claire Senft said:
Please Sanford, I already have enough personal issues without you removing my gender conflicts. I am an older person. I much prefer being adressed as Miss Senft. I guess that I am just not an ordinary old maid.

Mr Miller what would you recommend this female use as a gauge to determine size?

Thank goodness, for I hate political correctness as much as I hate digital. Miss Senft, You may surely be many things but none of them are ordinary... your 'Grace'

chiller · Jan 17, 2006

If you develop your film for one head type and print on the other you are bound to get less than pleasing results but if you develop for the head you are using you will get similar, though characteristically different results than the other light source type.

Is one better than another?

Of course it is

Steve

mono · Jan 18, 2006

Thank you all very much!
I had this question because I am very much interested in the new LED coldlight head produced by Heiland electronics famous for their Splitgrade controller.

Ronald Moravec · Jan 18, 2006

I have tried everything over 40+ years and everything works fine. If highlights block with a condenser, you developed too long. Of course an overdeveloped neg will print better on a diffusion machine. They print one grade softer. I use mine for contrast control.

All diffusion machines print the same, cold light or color head. LED`s will be about the same I presume.

If you develope a neg for #2 paper for a condenser, the print will match a neg developed for #2 paper made on a diffusion enlarger. If you are using small formats, there will be a slight reduction in grain.

lee · Jan 18, 2006

I have both a cold light and a condenser enlarger and use either without any issues.

lee\c

RH Designs · Jan 18, 2006

mono said:
I had this question because I am very much interested in the new LED coldlight head produced by Heiland electronics famous for their Splitgrade controller.

Folker -

LED light is not "cold light" in the traditional sense - the cold lights normally used in enlargers are fluorescent tubes. So answers comparing cold light and diffusion enlargers may not be appropriate to an LED light source which is different again.

That said, I haven't seen any difference between cold light and other diffusion light sources, and I wouldn't expect an LED source to be different either provided it's even - which would require a diffuser anyway.

The usual comparison of enlarger light sources is diffusion vs condenser as others have described - usually a condenser head will print harder. It shows up dust and scratches more than a diffusion one as well ...

Regards
Richard

mono · Jan 18, 2006

Thank you Richard!
And all the others.
I think now it is just a new light source and one should give it a try...
BTW: I have passed the Dales many times before on our way back home from Scotland ;-))

Claire Senft · Jan 18, 2006

Grace may well be a better name for me but I will still smell like quinone.

Why cold light sources?

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