Why am I shooting on paper backing with my Rollei SL66E

[RJSPHD55]

Really enjoy my SL66 except for one annoying issue. When I insert a new roll of film the winding mechanism on the magazine apparently stops before reaching actual film. My first 2 1/2 exposures are onto the paper backing of the roll. I get the same results on both magazines I own.

I sent the camera and backs to be CLA'd by a very reputable guy. He fixed several other issues and told me he checked the film advance on both of the magazines and they are working perfectly. (He even tried different films to be sure.)

But the problem persists for me!

The workaround is to blow through two or three frames on the paper and gain them back at the end when the counter says "12". I just keep just shoot "13" and "14" keeping track in my head.

This is not a very satisfying solution. I fully suspect user error on my part.

Advice, Please!!

Oh, one other thing: the manual says the frame counter should return to "S" when I open the back. It only returns to "1" on both backs. I have never seen a letter S in the frame counter.

 

[Sirius Glass]

When you load film do you wind the film until the arrows across the film line up with the starting location? Reread the camera manual on film loading and verify that you are doing exactly what the instructions are telling out. You are definitely starting to shoot too early in the roll of film.

 

[RJSPHD55]

According to the SL66 manual (and Youtube videos) there is no correct place to load the arrows. Instead, there is an automatic sensor in the magazines that stops the initial winding.

I have advanced the arrows as far as the take-up spool and it doesn't solve the problem.

 

[MattKing]

I sent the camera and backs to be CLA'd by a very reputable guy. He fixed several other issues and told me he checked the film advance on both of the magazines and they are working perfectly. (He even tried different films to be sure.)

But the problem persists for me!

Get back in touch with the repairer and ask them what process they were using to load and advance the film. Most likely you are doing something different - perhaps just slightly different - and if you mirror their process things will work correctly.
I would also suggest that you ask if the repairer checked the operation while the backs were mounted on the camera - in case the problem originates from the camera to back interface.

 

[RJSPHD55]

Thanks, Matt. I contacted him about the issue but he is not the best at communicating and he ended up just pointing me to the manual.

Good idea about the magazines. I have always loaded the film with the magazine attached. I will try this time with the magazine unattached . On the SL66 the magazines have the winder on the magazine itself,--it's not on the camera. But this is a very complex piece of equipment and I need to run with any suggestion.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

Did you and the repair person use the same type of 120 film? I have read of people who had the feeler trouble with some brands in the TLR bodies. Possibly retry with Tri-X 400 or an Ilford film, like HP5.

 

[Sirius Glass]

According to the SL66 manual (and Youtube videos) there is no correct place to load the arrows. Instead, there is an automatic sensor in the magazines that stops the initial winding.

I have advanced the arrows as far as the take-up spool and it doesn't solve the problem.

Get back in touch with the repairer and ask them what process they were using to load and advance the film. Most likely you are doing something different - perhaps just slightly different - and if you mirror their process things will work correctly.
I would also suggest that you ask if the repairer checked the operation while the backs were mounted on the camera - in case the problem originates from the camera to back interface.

Definitely have the loading sensor adjusted! Follow @MattKing's advice on this as Gospel.

 

[RJSPHD55]

Did you and the repair person use the same type of 120 film? I have read of people who had the feeler trouble with some brands in the TLR bodies. Possibly retry with Tri-X 400 or an Ilford film, like HP5.

 

[RJSPHD55]

I have the same result with 4 different film types, including Tri-X and Ilford. Same outcome.

 

[Hassasin]

I assume you wind on to first frame by magazine's knob not crank on the body?

And, you are NOT supposed to see the arrow before closing the back. The way this works, back needs to see the start of the film by itself without help.

Later backs introduced with E/X/SE dropped film auto-sensing and have arrow alignment mark just as all other brands.

 

[RJSPHD55]

Yes, I turn the nob on the magazine, not the camera crank.

 

[Hassasin]

Yes, I turn the nob on the magazine, not the camera crank.

What about the arrow ? Backing paper needs to be on take up spool just enough to be secured. Then close the back and wind on with knob until it stops on frame 1 by itself. If it doesn't do that, or stops but later you see no first frame shot on film, back is not working correctly.

 

[Hassasin]

There are only two possibilities here: user error or back needs repair. Maybe camera is not doing what it's supposed to, that is a different matter. A test with another back that works as it should on another body would confirm that.

 

[john_s]

Only the last version of the magazine, for the SL66SE, has the usual line up the arrow loading. (Hooray!) All previous models have the sensor which senses the start of the film (film thickness plus tape thickness). Over the years films have apparently varied in thickness, making the adjustment critical. However, with thinner film+tape, the usual problem is that you lose the first frames. The OP's problem is the opposite: the sensor activates too early.

The fact that the frame counter doesn't revert back to S concerns me. I've never actually taken any notice of mine, but I'm assuming it works correctly. (I am away from my camera at the moment so I can't take a look) The fact the this occurs with BOTH of the OP's magazines is a puzzle.

I have some texts downloaded from the internet over the years about SL66 magazine problems. I could post them here or somewhere else if that might help. But I think there is something very strange about the OP's magazines. Maybe the person who worked on them didn't get it right? Seems very odd!

 

[Hassasin]

Only the last version of the magazine, for the SL66SE, has the usual line up the arrow loading. (Hooray!) All previous models have the sensor which senses the start of the film (film thickness plus tape thickness). Over the years films have apparently varied in thickness, making the adjustment critical. However, with thinner film+tape, the usual problem is that you lose the first frames. The OP's problem is the opposite: the sensor activates too early.

The fact that the frame counter doesn't revert back to S concerns me. I've never actually taken any notice of mine, but I'm assuming it works correctly. (I am away from my camera at the moment so I can't take a look) The fact the this occurs with BOTH of the OP's magazines is a puzzle.

I have some texts downloaded from the internet over the years about SL66 magazine problems. I could post them here or somewhere else if that might help. But I think there is something very strange about the OP's magazines. Maybe the person who worked on them didn't get it right? Seems very odd!

Wasn't there just one version of the black magazines on the market ? According to SL66SE/X manual it's all the same, arrow mark. I don't know of any all black magazines that had film sensor.

On Op's problem, outside of user error, and your assumption sensor triggers too early (not sure how that's possible, unless service man had no clue what he was doing and adjusted for thickness without film+tape),

I did miss the fact it was happening on both magazines, which to me indicates possible problem on the body instead(provided all film loading and advance to frame on eis done as per instructions).

On film sensor, problems started when backing paper got thinner, as it has been ever since certain point many years ago. I am not sure if paper thickness variance, brand to brand, still is the case and things may work with some brands and not so well with others.

 

[k.hendrik]

https://sl66.rolleigraphy.eu/ Maybe this guy(Ferdi Stutterheim) has an answer ?!
happy shooting

 

[john_s]

Wasn't there just one version of the black magazines on the market ? According to SL66SE/X manual it's all the same, arrow mark. I don't know of any all black magazines that had film sensor.

.....................................

Judging by what's for sale on the internet, there was an all black magazine with film speed setting that still had the pop-out knob and presumably the same feeler sensor film loading system, sold with the SL66E. For the SL66SE and SL66X there is the handle instead of the knob.