Who's shooting with Zeiss Ikon ZM

cotdt said:

I've read that the Biogon 21mm is indeed a retrofocus design, based on its light falloff chart, but not as retrofocus as the Distagon.

I do know that the Leica 21mm Elmarit is retrofocus though, because they said so themselves.

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Elmarit-M 21 mm ASPH Technical Data_en
http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/2177.html


In the above Leica reference, the only thing that relates to retrofocus design is given by the lens diagram itself, which shows a non-retrofocus Biogon Type lens design with one Asphere element.

Both of the current ZM Biogon lenses are non-retrofocus near symmetric lens designs according to the Zeiss literature.

The Distagon was designed from its inception to be retrofocus, according to the Carl Zeiss AG site, which also goes on to say that Biogon lenses are made for non-SLR designs because the rear element sits very close to the film plane.

Fleath said:

Like you said there isnt any perfect system, but with all the gear available today at such prices there's really no reason you can't have several systems to compliment eachother. Plus it's terribly fun.

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Very true. No problem with the Bessa unless you're going with fast glass. In that case the ZM is the clear winner.

I really love my R2. I bought one to carry in my car and a couple of CV lenses. I figured it was no big loss if it was ripped off out of my car or I was robbed. I'm planning some european travel and didn't want to carry much gear or I would feel like I was on assignment. The Bessa fit the bill. Quality is fine and overall performance is very good. The meter is very good and the RF / VF are very good unless you're shooting at 1.4 and close. The ZM on the otherhand is a dream to use in every respect.

elekm said:

The Distagon was designed from its inception to be retrofocus, according to the Carl Zeiss AG site, which also goes on to say that Biogon lenses are made for non-SLR designs because the rear element sits very close to the film plane.

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Yes, and the Zeiss Performance Data (from the Carl Zeiss AG site) for the 4/18 ZM Distagon T*, C Biogon T*4.5/21 ZM and the Biogon T* 2.8/21 ZM is worth a close look. The Zeiss designers did an amazing job in getting the MTF Curves and the Distortion Curve for the Distagon 4/18 ZM as close to the Performance of the two ZM Biogons as they did. The Relative Illuminance Performance Data is about the same for all 3 of these ZM lenses.

Don thanks for posting a link to your photos, I really enjoyed looking at them.

Fleath I bought a Voightlander Bessa R2 with 35 mm color skopar and 75 color heliar and never regretted the decision. Its great to be able to wander around with the camera, a spare lens in one pocket and a few rolls of film in the other. I took the outfit to Beijing last year to do some street work and the camera worked like a charm. I took some of my best photos ever on that trip and I was able to print them up to A3 size with no problem.

I've been tempted to look into the Zeiss Ikon but I can't stop using my Contax G2s. Those Zeiss lenses for the G are fabulous, and I just can't see moving into a different camera system.

charlesh said:

I've been tempted to look into the Zeiss Ikon but I can't stop using my Contax G2s. Those Zeiss lenses for the G are fabulous, and I just can't see moving into a different camera system.

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I love my Contax G2s and the Zeiss lenses for the G series.

I also love my ZM and the M mount Zeiss ZM lenses.

Don Dudenbostel said:

I do documentary work with the Rf. I don't limit myself to one format but work from 35mm to 8x10 depending on the shot.

Here's a small sample of images spanning 40 years. I just haven't had a chance to get a website up bu am planning to this summer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7168285@N04/#photo521770167

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Very nice shots on your Flickr stream. Do you still make it to Tennessee? Also nice review of the ZM.

THardy said:

Very nice shots on your Flickr stream. Do you still make it to Tennessee? Also nice review of the ZM.

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Thanks very much. I live in east Tennessee within an hour or so of where these were taken. Plenty of great material here and some beautiful scenery and fine people. Going into the mountain areas is like stepping back 75 years in time. In some of the areas I photograph, electricity wasn't in the area untill the late 50's and some areas residents didn't have it in their homes untill the mid 80's. I've worked with a couple of families that never got electricity, can't read and write and still use mules and horses to work their farms. Few places in the US are like this and I feel very fortunate to have access to such great subjects.

happy with my zm so far

had it for two years, with Voigtlander, Minolta and Leica M-mount lenses and am happy as a bird.
Pros: works well with the Ultron 28/1.8, Ultron 35/1.7, Cron 50/2 and Minolta 90/2, so-so with the Jupiter 9 - problem with hot spot in this lens.

Small cons:
- Don't like the metering pattern, but got used to it.
- Had a problem with the rangefinder not registering well at infinite but fixed that by going to the adjust screw under the flash mount.

Other than that, it's been a constant friend and companion.

Only wish I could afford the Zeiss glass...

cotdt said:

But the purpose of ultra-wides is macro, not to fit in a big scene. A 28mm is enough for most such purposes.

Rather, the purpose of an ultra-wide is composition. You usually have a near object and it's background, so close focus ability is essential and rangefinders are just bad at that.

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Eh? Most of my wide street shooting has been with a CV 21/4 or a Zeiss 25/2.8 - can't think of a single one off the top of my head where I felt impeded by close focus limitations.

I don't think anyone mentioned the handholdability of RFs - it's like built in VR - I regularly go down to 1/8. But the RF aesthetic is just different from SLRs - either you like it or you don't. You can only quantify and objectively compare so much.

-A

Anupam Basu said:

Eh? Most of my wide street shooting has been with a CV 21/4 or a Zeiss 25/2.8 - can't think of a single one off the top of my head where I felt impeded by close focus limitations.

I don't think anyone mentioned the handholdability of RFs - it's like built in VR - I regularly go down to 1/8. But the RF aesthetic is just different from SLRs - either you like it or you don't. You can only quantify and objectively compare so much.

-A

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I agree, I shoot a lot (landscapes, other wide angle nature and street scenes with my CV 21/4) and have not felt restricted or impeded by close focus limitations).

Use of a leather half case has made the shutter much more quiet.

The Zeiss Ikon is a very nice camara. The view finder is bright and easy to see through. I have used mine in very bright and dim light situations and I always find it easy to focus. The Bessa is indeed a lot cheaper but the zeiss mechanics works very well. The only thing I do not like about it is the amount of shots you have to do to fill a roll of 24 or 36 and the small negative size, but this has nothing to do with with the camera, or any camera. However, for the same price or cheaper you can buy a nice mamiya 7 second hand. If you do not mind 10 frames, I like it, and can live with one or two lens options, than this might be a more economical choice . One thing the zeiss is a faster camera. You really can not go wrong with that camera. Sometimes you can find them second hand as well; check b&h, keh, or the classified ads at the range finder forum.

Andrey said:

*Rambling alert!*

I've had one more canon body stop working on me last day. This left me without a "good" film system. I have a couple of bodies here and there with random 50mm lenses on it, but no wides, no teles in one package.

Now I am rethinking my equipment history and the cost/benefit ratios of the equipment I bought.

From that, considering I am not a heavy user, any new body I probably wouldn't be able to wear down.

I regret not buying the FM3a while it was still new at BHphoto. I almost pulled the trigger on it, but then decided to buy into Canon FD. A wonderful journey filled with shutter squeaks, erratic bodies and ruined shoots.

I don't want to bother with fully mechanical cameras anymore. Just like mechanical watches, they're largely a thing of the past. I want to know what time it is, and quartz does quite a good job.

So, I want:
1) an electronically timed shutter
2) easily accessible batteries
3) a new body that is currently manufactured

Bessa seems one obvious choice, but I don't see the real quality in it. 600 bucks for a camera is cheap.

New leicas are out of the pricerange.

Zeiss Ikon ZM seems like a good choice and fits the bill. It only costs as much as a prosumer DSLR and seems to have a decent viewfinder specs at .72 magnification, which I need for my wides.

It seems I have found my cam.

Does anybody have one?

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Hi Andrey

Google is your friend you can search for negative threads as well as +ve, e.g.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97349

I prefer manual cams but do use ZM and CV rfdr lenses, they are ok.

Noel

Hi Andrey,

I've used the Zeiss Ikon ZM for shooting street life and portraits in New York. And now extensively for a year in the field in India.

The positives.

1. The rangefinder patch is sharp and snaps into focus if you position your eyes directly behind (easy with practice).
2. The rangefinder baselength is high. On my sample I have never had focus issues with any lens upto 50mm f1.4 at their widest apertures. I have had a sample of a Bessa R3A camera where I simply could not get sharp negatives with a 50 Sumicron and a 50mm f1.5 Nokton. The Nokton would work perfectly on a Bessa R. So you might want to check user reports of variability if you go the Bessa way.
3. The exposure lock button is well designed and very useful in real life. The meter is quite accurate in practical use when used in conjunction with the AE lock.
4. Lightweight compared to the leica's. Yet reasonably solid.


The negatives.

1. The shutter is louder than a Leica M. This can be attenuated by using a leather case for the Leica M3 (easily available used) which fits the Zeiss Ikon perfectly.
2. The film rewind button is kind of flimsy. I doubt that this will matter, but I do wind the film slower as a precaution.
3. After a few months of use in the field in India, my sample started draining the batteries out within a single roll unless turned off and back on for every shot. After a few such rolls the electronics went offline. This was fixed by a local repair person and has not reoccurred since. Do note that field conditions here include extreme heat, dust and humidity.

The final test for equipment is whether I would buy a second Zeiss Ikon ZI when needed.

I would.

- Santanu