Who's left?

I must say that the relegation of traditional photography from its position as a vital commercial and artistic artform to the status of esoteric hobby has proceeded even faster than I expected. Perhaps the recent passing of Henri Cartier Bresson and yesterday's death of Richard Avedon have made this seem more poignant. I started shooting in about 1946 and have continued with varying levels of concentration ever since. Currently I do very little. When I picked up a camera or set about making a print, I often felt an identity with all photographers great and small in all corners of the world who had ever performed the rituals unique to photography and which were in many ways unchanged from the invention of that artform onward.

It's easy to feel obsolete and out of place in the face of the digital imaging juggernaut. Of course, if I were a real artist, I would welcome digital as a new and flexible tool for expressing my artistic vision. That seems to be the graceful way to go for us moldy figs.

I am not bothered at all about the demise of certain brand names in film and paper. I enjoy my 8x10 so much that for nearly one year now I have been out with it at least 5 times a week, not always taking a shot but certainly enjoying its company. Nowadays it even feels too small. I am certainly on the way to supporting the 12x20 industry.

Art Vandalay said:

I haven't read through the entire thread, but what is surprising me the most is how many of you are talking about giving up photography if you can't use 'analog' materials!! I despise digital as much as anyone (just ask my unfortunate digital acquaintances) but my true love is photography, not film/paper. Woodworking, ceramics, painting etc etc don't even come close to photography for me. Hopefully there will always be analog supplies but I would never give up photography if they disappeared.

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Every spectrum has two sides. You do your photography for whatever reason floats your boat and I will float my boat (handbuilt) when photography is nothing more than a bitshifting exercise on a computer screen.

tim in san jose
(computer engineer by education, software engineer by vocation, photographer by choice)

I was previously considering digital negatives...

However, two issues:

1. I'm becoming increasingly displeased with most things digital.
2. After listening to and coming into the understanding of certain passions, going the 'cheap' route just seems outright disrespectful.

Unless you've had a total change of heart recently (this post is a few months old), you may be glad to know that you have helped enforce my pleasures and beliefs.

Not to sound grave, or anything.

Jorge said:

What really chaps my hide is that I was called a "strident anti digital" person, well, here are the results of my stridency. The popularity of this site with analog people has given more exposure to the digital negatives to people that otherwise might have chosen to go the film route than any other site. I dont see Smith having a forum for digital negatives, people at the LF forum are already doing that and most have become comfortable, so here we have a person who hails digital negatives just as good as in camera negatives, and people who might have at least tried film first decided to go the dgital negative route. As a result, less film is bought and we are now seeing the results.

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Perhaps we should recognize that one of the challenges early photographers had was finding materials, and that challenge probably was their inspiration rather than a reason to abandon.
I have helped that a bit for me by squirrelling away a few of my favorite things in the freezer. I always liked using a Baby Rollei so I put away some 127 Verichrome and Efke R17 when Mr Orensteen was selling it.
I liked Polymax FA in C surface but some computer has decided to discontinue it.
In my experience the slow films keep forever refrigerated and this weekend I used some Brovira grade 4 that is 30 yrs old and never refrigerated. Still grade 4 and no fog.
Some materials will always be available but will they be the ones you like. I suggest putting a few of these away.

Mark

I started buying from John at J&C in 2002, I think, and seem to remember a small listing for J&C 200 and Efke in 35mm roll film. Take a look at his catalog now. He is doing a good job and adding to the demand for film.

Granted things continue to change, but film is doing well and there are people out there who still shoot and enjoy it. Best guess is to stock up and ride it out. Keep showing prints in exhibits, galleries etc. The more people who see film and prints, the better off we all are.

Francesco, very nice to see your posts again. Welcome home! tim

k_jupiter said:

... That said, I am amazed at the number of people that would substitute woodworking for photography...

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I find that interesting as well. Several years ago I got the bug to build an 11x14 camera and so I took up woodworking at that point. (Still working on the camera after getting sidetracked on a few other photography-related pieces.)

Another thing I've noticed is several ULF photographers I've corresponded with on the internet are geologists and a couple also share the woodworking interest. A couple of us are also getting into wetplate collodion recently.

After toying with the idea of wetplate photography for several years, all this uncertainty about ULF film availability finally pushed me to take up collodion this year. I tried the digital negative route and although I made some of the best alternative process prints I've ever done using diginegs, I found the process very unrewarding and have abandoned it for my personal photography. The digineg route really left me cold.

But, now I'm happy again building wooden wetplate cameras and darkboxes, etc.

Joe

I have no doubt that film, paper and other photographic chemicals will be around for many many years yet. What is happening now is the volumes of film sold/developed/printed is far less than pre-affordable digital. All that will happen is smaller companies will appear and cater for the (now reduced) demand and be far better suited to meet this new demand than large companies like kodak and fuji. This is already happening with places like j&c and retro photographic here in the uk. Yes the prices will probably go up and we will have to use probably east european products but I very much doubt film will cease to be available.

Take a look at the music industry. With the advent of pro tools and the like is analog tape dead? No! It is still widely used and preferred by many studios and recording engineers despite the obvious advantages digital has. The use of the transistor in amplifiers. The transistor has replaced valves in most amps but for the best sound quality, valves are the only way to go. Ask any guitarist/bass player, and look what decent bands use when they gig.

Personally, I find 'analog' photography a pain. Developing requires chemicals that go off, and it takes a while to do. As for printing, putting together a darkroom is a luxury that most people can't manage, especially if you are not a home owner like me. I don't have anywhere near the free time to print myself and I'm very sure many professional people don't either. All my colour stuff (now minimal) is done from scanned film. Things I can do in minutes in photoshop would take me years to learn to do in the darkroom - masking, local contrast enhancement, dodging and burning etc. And best of all I have an 'undo' If you take a look at sports many have had to adapt since it's clear people now have much more limited leisure time and more disposable cash.

If/when digital can produce b&w equal of traditional processes and I have the cash I'll ditch film in an instant and never look back. The whole analog process after exposing the film is way too time consuming for me.

But one thing I'm pretty sure of if that analog photography will be around for a very long time yet, especially in the UK. I can see interviews in the future with fashion pros saying 'For this shot I was looking for a specific look so I used film'.

I'm shocked so many of you vow to ditch photography if you are forced to use digital. I find it very difficult to understand, since it's just a change in workflow, but perhaps I do photography for different reasons. My favourite part of photography is actually being out there taking the pictures, I really don't enjoy messing around with the printing side of things, digital or analog. Maybe for some people they enjoy spending time in the darkroom over being outside/studio taking pictures.

Note: I realise that the above may p*ss some people off, this is not intended in any way but just my take on things!

m liddle

my take on this is with the explosion of digital , anyone can get in and start producing, but. I am constantly hearing that all the digital looks the same, very clean, very smooth bla bla bla.
Stepping into the darkroom and creating 5-10 different looks in an afternoon is quite possible with traditional. After 30 years printing one begins to see the endless possibilitys of a darkroom and chemicals. Not to shit on digital but by the time one learns all the , levels , filters ,burn tools in photoshop well you have just achieved a level of excellence any camera store, adobe sales rep have. Now you need to make a print, if you don,t have the vision or lets say photographic historical perspective and photographic technical background you are going to make prints like everyone else. Photo - shop was introduced after long study of photo comp and was based on photographic theory. So who is teaching the Mac Monkeys this. Without a strong photographic traditional background well you are just * at a common starting point with millions of others*.
IMO there are only two ways to really achieve quality in a final photographic print.
1. shoot real film and print traditionally
2. shoot very high end digital and use traditional materials.(no film)

Scanning is like making internegs of past days, basically a second generation substitute for the real thing.

I think film is very much alive and well for those who appreciate what film to print can do. As long as the coating alleys don't all dry up , there will be a market and those of us know how to use it.
The amature masses can shoot on a cell phone till the cows come in for all I care, There are already to many people taking to many crappy photos so let it be digital.
I think this site is made for those people who appreciate quality photographic out put, The variety of analog methods can take 4 lifetimes to master and that is what is beautiful about wet methods, not the fast, quick, clean go eat a burrito while I print thinking of inkjet methods.
I print both trad and digital daily, I see both methods for what they are worth and strongly believe photographers will be using wet methods 100years from today, I am not so sure about inkjet though.