Who's doing CLA on round shutters these days, and what's it cost?

Donald Qualls · Aug 10, 2021

I just picked up a Graphic View II with a 270 mm f/5.6 Rotelar in Synchro Compur -- description says "speeds slower than 1/10 aren't reliable." Seems obvious the shutter needs a CLA; probably has old oil gummed up in the pallet. I'm capable of doing this myself, but I have very little free time and even less appropriate workspace (not accessible to cats).

Who's doing CLA on these old shutters these days, and about what can I expect it to cost?

Carol at Flutot's was the preferred answer 10-15 years ago, but I'm guessing she's about as old as dirt by now. Is there a better option?

ProfessorC1983 · Aug 10, 2021

I emailed a bit with Carol about a year ago and she was still in business, but lead time on a CLA was 3-4 months as I believe her husband had recently passed. The quote for a CLA was $150. I never got around to mailing it.

Donald Qualls · Aug 10, 2021

That's probably a shorter time frame than I'd have trying to do it myself, and not an unreasonable dollar figure in today's market. I'll have to look them up and send an inquiry. The nice thing is, with large format gear, I can send just the shutter and save on postage.

juan · Aug 10, 2021

Member @Whir-Click here works on some shutters. So does @shutterfinger.

Donald Qualls · Aug 10, 2021

Sigh. And now Flutot's web page says they're only about 50/50 on restoring full function for a Synchro-Compur with slow or stopping slow speeds -- and $45 bench fee if they can only partially restore it... What shutter would replace what I presume is a #1 Synchro Compur, just in case?

cjbecker · Aug 10, 2021

I just had carol work on a shutter for me. Was not able to make the Synchro-Compur get back up too full speed, but now its at least consistent! She did excellent work and would send her more shutters.

Dan Fromm · Aug 10, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
What shutter would replace what I presume is a #1 Synchro Compur, just in case?

Copal #1 (Press and cock-and-shoot, but not the Polaroid versions, their tube lengths are off spec), Prontor Press #1/

Donald Qualls · Aug 10, 2021

I know not to expect a 60-70 year old shutter to make full marked speed (likely didn't when new) -- the 400 is likely to be 200, but it'd be handy if the 1/10 is somewhere close, and the 1/2 usable; those speeds are more useful on a view camera than the fast ones anyway.

Thanks, @Dan Fromm I'll know what to look for if it can't be brought back. Be a few days before I get the big box anyway, it might not be as bad as the seller said (happens sometimes).

Steve Goldstein · Aug 10, 2021

In addition to Carol, Photrio user Dan Daniel (NY) does shutter CLAs, as does Frank Marshman in Harrisonburg, Virginia and possibly Michael Zack (Zack's Camera Repair, Providence, RI, Photrio advertiser). I've never had Michael do one for me so that's a guess, but Carol, Dan, and Frank have all done shutters for me. Cost could be anywhere from $50 (low, unlikely these days) to (more usually) about $100. Plus shipping.

The problem with Synchro-Compurs is parts. While this is true of all shutters nowadays, it was especially an issue for me as my Synchro-Compur used a plastic or nylon washer-like part (maybe 35mm diameter, cross-section less than 1mm) that was total unobtanium. I'd sent that SC to Frank a few years ago, but it turned out that part had failed. He looked around for several months before we agreed to give up and declare it unrepairable.

Donald Qualls · Aug 10, 2021

Hmmm. That sounds like a potential opportunity. Nylon or even Teflon washers can be cut with a simple punch, if you can get sheet the right thickness and chemical specs. I wonder what else is no longer obtainable for well-distributed quality shutters?

It'd be a lot smaller capital investment to manufacture shutter repair parts than to manufacture shutters, I'd think -- if the specs are obtainable (exact dimensions, hardness state, material, surface finish, etc. might all be critical for, say, aperture or shutter leaves).

BrianShaw · Aug 10, 2021

Mainsprings

shutterfinger · Aug 10, 2021

And I'm backed up for a few months due to a medical problem.
Synchro Compurs not run until they stop come back with 1 second to 1/100 in tolerance; run until it stops 1 second to 1/50 in tolerance at best after a tear down CLA.

I've yet to see a Synchro Comur with a plastic/nylon washer. A recent #1 CLA.

Steve Goldstein · Aug 10, 2021

shutterfinger said:
I've yet to see a Synchro Comur with a plastic/nylon washer. A recent #1 CLA.

It was more like an O-ring, actually. I think it held things together sometime. It had broken into several pieces, and I remember looking at it when he returned the shutter to me. Given the round cross-section I think it would be difficult to make using a punch.

This was several years ago and I've sold on the lens in its non-functional and non-repairable (disclosed, obviously) shutter.

grat · Aug 10, 2021

I don't know if Mike Trost at phototronic.biz does syncro-compurs, but since he was able to repair a very old Compur for me, I suspect he does.

Donald Qualls · Aug 11, 2021

There are significant functional differences between rim-set Compur and Compur-Rapid (pre-War designs) and Synchro-Compur. That said, if that ring has a cross section of than "punched from a sheet" it might still be amenable to 3D printing in flexible filament, or nylon, or HDPE, as meets the material needs.

So aperture and shutter leaves (probably best done bespoke, since there are so many variations, but starting with a laser cutter and a half dozen thicknesses of steel sheet), mainsprings (likewise, wound on a jig from 6-8 choices of wire thickness) and plastic parts of various sorts, laser cut from sheet and/or 3D printed.

Too bad I don't have $20-30k for equipment and the workspace to set it up. A couple higher-end 3D printers, a laser cutter, and some basic tools could put repairing these "no parts" shutters back on the table, if the money works out.

Donald Qualls · Aug 11, 2021

shutterfinger said:
Synchro Compurs not run until they stop come back with 1 second to 1/100 in tolerance; run until it stops 1 second to 1/50 in tolerance at best after a tear down CLA.

The seller says the faster speeds are consistent -- I'll know for certain in a few days (listing gave arrival by the 16th). For large format, you can almost get away with 1/25 or 1/50 and B. That should put it outside the "run until it stops" category, at least.

shutterfinger · Aug 11, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
The seller says the faster speeds are consistent -- I'll know for certain in a few days (listing gave arrival by the 16th). For large format, you can almost get away with 1/25 or 1/50 and B. That should put it outside the "run until it stops" category, at least.

Actually that puts it on the border line.
I've serviced rim set compur, compur rapid in #00 and #0 sizes and they did not use a O ring. I've serviced Synchro Compur in all sizes and no O rings. I'm thinking Steve's shutter was a late production version.
The shutter I pictured is a CN-1307-000 in https://learncamerarepair.com/downloads/pdf/Compur-Factory-Shutter-Repair-Manual.pdf
I have serviced Compur Rapid by using the top plate of one shutter and the bottom of the main plate of another shutter in this manual as they were very similar.

Shutter blades are .002 inch blued steel.

Donald Qualls · Aug 11, 2021

shutterfinger said:
Shutter blades are .002 inch blued steel.

Except for the ones that are some kind of plastic (celluloid?) or paper material. Different shutters, different stuff (maybe even different thickness of the same stuff), as well as different shapes, pivot pin and actuator pin sizes, corner ramps, etc. But with CAD software and a laser cutter, plus a method of deburring, either without removing the blue or do the bluing after cutting/assembly, it certainly seems possible. It would be expensive compared to what they cost when the shutter makers were churning them out by the millions, but not as bad as it would have been say, fifteen years ago (before a laser cutter that can do thin steel came down below $1000).

Who's doing CLA on round shutters these days, and what's it cost?

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