Whole Plate

[Tom Stanworth]

Hi,

Edited: I mean WHOLE PLATE. Cannot seem to edit title...

I saw a Mike Johnson blog about an Ebony Half plate camera. I am not about to buy one but did wonder how available are half plate film holders (first rate modern ones). Is it a case of super expensive hand made wooden ones or can you get modern ones made of (cough) plastic; like fidelity/toyo?

The proportions look wonderful and I can imagine that a half plate contact is about (for me) ideal. intimate but with a touch more size than 5x7, but of altogether more elegant proportions than 10x8.

Looked beautiful and I wonder how many work with this format....

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Title edited.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I think you're referring to whole plate, not half, as described in this blog entry:

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/04/more-about-ebony-sv-wholeplate_09.html

It's there, scroll down. Near the end Oren mentions that Fotoman Camera is planning to sell modern, plastic whole plate film holders. Projected availability is late July. Go here:

Dead Link Removed

and scroll down to the two "6 1/2 x 8 1/2 Holders" questions for more details.

 

[Mark Sawyer]

As half plate is 4.25 by 6.5 inches, I think you'd be far better off, in practical terms such as film and holders, using 5x7 and cropping down a touch.

But then you lose the intangible mystique of an obsolete format. Then again, as lovely as it would be to work in whole plate/half plate/quarter plate sizes, I'd prefer taking it all back a little farther and working in the Old English sizes such as Foolscap, Super Royal, Imperial, Elephant, Double Elephant...

(Hey, how many of you knew that 8x10 is actually "Large Post 4to"?)

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Thanks David.

Yes its the Whole plate I am referring to 6.5x8.5 and this is the format teh Ebony Sv was made in. I just wondered that for someone to be buying a whole plate camera they had better be able to get holders.

It also struck me that some of the most wonderfullly cheap, compact and available lenses cover 5x7 with massive movements or 10x8 with not too much to spare. Whole plate would mean easier coverage but sitll a whopper neg. My 210 G claron would be a nice medium wide with huge coverage and my 110XL would even cover the 272mm diagonal (just). A 150 XL would have monster coverage as would my 300 Geronar. I am not going to go out and buy one but I am so glad to hear that teh format is going well enough for someone to sell such a camera (assuming it is not just a one off)

Fotoman half plate holders, eh....This is just great for those prepared to hunt down the film that is!

Maybe now is the time to pick up vintage whole plate cameras!!!!!

 

[Terence]

That's exactly what I've done. Intrigued by all the discussion, I've bought two whole plate cameras this year. I even managed to sneak in an order of the Ilford film when they extended their "ULF" special orders by a week. I could only afford 75 sheets, but at the rate I shoot, and the number of formats and cameras I shoot, that should last me until next year's order.

Unfortunately, one camera came with plate holders that don't fit the camera. The other camera needs a bit of TLC to get it in working order. It's a Japanese model with the book-form holders and film inserts. Either camera would look great as a display piece if I find I don't like the format and can't sell them.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Fotoman half plate holders, eh....This is just great for those prepared to hunt down the film that is!...

No, whole plate holders. The film is available from Ilford during its periodic special order periods.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

No, whole plate holders. The film is available from Ilford during its periodic special order periods.

I also swap numbers about. I meant whole plate. I am writing on my hand right now......would you be prepared to reveal how much the whole plate SV cost? Bought thru a US dealer or direct?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Bought thru a US dealer or direct?

For complete details on cost and the optimum way to purchase one in any country, please contact Ebony at:

hiromi@ebonycamera.com

In my experience, Ebony's English-speaking agent Ian Wilson responds promptly and thoroughly to all questions.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

For complete details on cost and the optimum way to purchase one in any country, please contact Ebony at:

hiromi@ebonycamera.com

In my experience, Ebony's English-speaking agent Ian Wilson responds promptly and thoroughly to all questions.

I daren't do it. Thats how I bought my Leica MP. Right now my most practical aspiration would be an SV57 (and this is not going to happen either!). I am looking at a Shen Hao to allow me to use longer lenses than I presently can in 5x7. Maybe they will build a whole plate after all they do a 5x12!!!

Upon pondering the whole plate, I suddenly thought; what does one do for a regular 90mm (on 5x4) equiv wide? The 110XL barely covers but is super wide and so the 150XL (or enormous Nikkor 150 SW) is about the only lens that covers in this medium wide category. The 210 G claron would me a nice mild wide but that leaves nothing in the middle. I guess for those contact printing there are loads of vintage lenses but for those enlarging it is a bit tougher, esp as none of the modern 180mm lenses cover. I guess all formats have their tricky spots in terms of lenses, but for 10x8 it falls in the very wide category which I can live without (150mm) when considering the cost. Just a shame that this dead (expensive to fill) spot falls in the regular day to day wide category for the whole plate. A 180 G claron would have been handy!

Enjoy the camera Sal!

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...what does one do for a regular 90mm (on 5x4) equiv wide?...I guess for those contact printing there are loads of vintage lenses but for those enlarging it is a bit tougher, esp as none of the modern 180mm lenses cover...

I think the optimum application of whole plate is contact printing. If one primarily enlarges, 5x7 seems a better choice. The best "90" equivalent would be a 158mm Cooke Series VIIc -- my nomenclature for a new, multicoated version of the VIIb that Barbara Lowery said would eventually be produced. Of course, given Cooke's recent suspending production of view camera lenses, eventually might be a long, long time. Until then, if one contact prints only, the VIIb version might prove adequate.

There is a 180mm option if one considers the single-coated, 80-degree Fujinon W "modern." That lens from the 1970s covers 305mm, a circle 45mm larger in diameter than actual whole plate (film) image area.

...Enjoy the camera Sal!

Thanks, I'll do that.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

The new Cooke 158, if it ever emerges, is likely t be rather expensive too!

It might sound silly, but as appealing as the 10x8 is as a format for enlarging, it is just that tiny bit too big for convenience. I speak mainly of the size of the film (and loading issues) and the size of the holder. 5x7 is far more comfortable but I reckon whole plate would be the limit of (relatively) easy loading and handling. I can certainly see the appeal for contact printing due to the somehow perfectly intimate (but not too small) size and more pleasing aspect ratio than 10x8.

I am still chuffed to bits I moved from 5x4 to 5x7 and find myself still marveling at how pleasant the aspect ratio is. I know any format can be cropped but there is no doubt that what you start with influences things. 6x4.5 rollfilm is just the same...

 

[Ole]

Among the "elderly moderately wide" there are the 120/121mm f:8 Super Angulon, 165mm f:6.8 Angulon, 180mm f:5.6 Symmar and similar lenses from other manufacturers - and with different letters after the name.

The coverage of the 180 Symmar is tight-ish - the others have room to spare. I happen to own all three of these, and I'm very happy with them all on 5x7", and the two wides on 8x10".

 

[clay]

If you can lay your hands on a 150/9 Zeiss Dagor, that is a killer, moderately old, moderately wide lens for this format. It covers up to 10x12! Another choice for ultra wide in a modern lens is the 110 SymmarXL.

I think the optimum application of whole plate is contact printing. If one primarily enlarges, 5x7 seems a better choice. The best "90" equivalent would be a 158mm Cooke Series VIIc -- my nomenclature for a new, multicoated version of the VIIb that Barbara Lowery said would eventually be produced. Of course, given Cooke's recent suspending production of view camera lenses, eventually might be a long, long time. Until then, if one contact prints only, the VIIb version might prove adequate.

There is a 180mm option if one considers the single-coated, 80-degree Fujinon W "modern." That lens from the 1970s covers 305mm, a circle 45mm larger in diameter than actual whole plate (film) image area.

Thanks, I'll do that.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Another good lens in that size range is the (not so modern) Wollensak 159mm F9.5 or F12 (depends on the version). It will cover 8x10 with movement. They're also very reasonably priced, as Wollensak glass seems to be underappreciated on the whole.

 

[Oren Grad]

My 180 Apo-Sironar-S is fine for whole plate, albeit without much movement. The 180 Apo-Symmar L should be OK too.

 

[davekarp]

There is a 180mm option if one considers the single-coated, 80-degree Fujinon W "modern." That lens from the 1970s covers 305mm, a circle 45mm larger in diameter than actual whole plate (film) image area.

I just purchased a 180mm Fujinon W like Sal described above for my whole plate Improved Seneca. It covers beautifully with plenty of movement, and the f/5.6 max aperture is very nice.

Now, if I could only find some Eastman holders. At this rate, I will probably end up waiting for the new Fotoman holders to come out. If that happens, I'll miss a trip to Yosemite with the Seneca, but if Fotoman keeps to their schedule, I will probably have some holders for my trip to Alaska later this summer.

 

[Bandicoot]

Fotoman half plate holders, eh....This is just great for those prepared to hunt down the film that is!

I have six boxes of half-plate Velvia in my freezer

I like the format and use it quite often: I have old Kodak holders that are externally the same size as (modern) 5x7 and 13x18 holders are, so it goes in my 5x7 Arca rather than a dedicated half-plate camera.

I've just bought an old 5x7 wooden folder, the renovation of which will be a project for the summer evenings, so may 'soon' be taking holders loaded with half plate film out with me.



Peter

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Another good lens in that size range is the (not so modern) Wollensak 159mm F9.5 or F12 (depends on the version). It will cover 8x10 with movement. They're also very reasonably priced, as Wollensak glass seems to be underappreciated on the whole.

Mine did not...did not come close. It covered with illumination but the corner resolution was terrible. I have heard many people say they cover fine and as many say they dont. My experience was that they are better off on a 5x7. Its such a shame as it was so small (mine the 12.5) and I was lucky enough to have an almost mint example...but the images were way too soft in the corners. might have been nice for certain alt process contacts tho.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

The 165 angulon is the lens I might go looking for for the 10x8 (which I am now determined not to give up on). The 150 XL too expensive....but I cannot say that I have seen many 165 angulons out there!

 

[Gordon Cooper]

Whole Plate Camera Restoration

I picked up a plate camera seven years ago at a Camera swap meet. It doesn't have a lens board or ground glass, but that's easy enough to get.

There's no name, no marks of any sort on the camera, but the rails are in good condition, as are the bellows.

I bought a 10 3/4" Goerz Celor a few years ago for this camera, and it will probably go off to S. Grimes to be set into a shutter. According to the limited information I have on this lens it can cover this format.


Can folks suggest a repair/restoration person? I don't mind waiting 2-3 months, especially if Fotoman is releasing new holders.

 

[davekarp]

Can folks suggest a repair/restoration person? I don't mind waiting 2-3 months, especially if Fotoman is releasing new holders.

Give Richard Ritter a call. Here is his website: http://www.lg4mat.net.

I have not used him, but he gets rave reviews. He was involved in building the Zone VI cameras that were actually built by Zone VI.

 

[Gordon Cooper]

Thanks Dave, I'll check that out.