whole plate t-max sizes

jimmyp · Jan 2, 2009

I see Glazer's lists T-max as 6.4 x 8.4. Is this the same as whole plate?

Edit: Is there a shop that has the ilford whole plate in stock, or do I need to wait for this years order?

Ian Grant · Jan 2, 2009

You need to check the Kodak catalogue, but Whole plate is a British film size and has been uncommon for quite a number of years, I've never seen it on a shelf anywhere for over 30 years & I have a whole plate, half-plate/5x4 camera.

It'll be special order from Kodak & Ilford. But 5x7 International film holders are the same size.

Ian

PHOTOTONE · Jan 2, 2009

Ian Grant said:
It'll be special order from Kodak & Ilford. But 5x7 International film holders are the same size.

Ian

Incorrect. 5x7 international film holders are the same exterior size as "HALF-PLATE" holders, or rather international common Lisco Regal type half-plate holders are the same outside dimensions as common 5x7 film holders.

Whole plate is much bigger holder. About half-way bigger between 5x7 and 8x10 holders...as I look at mine here before me..actually closer in size to 8x10 it seems to me.

jimmyp · Jan 2, 2009

It's just that I expected the film size to be 6.5 x 8.5 rather than what Glazer's is listing. I know there was some whole plate done in last years' ilford special orders.

Thanks for the replies.

outwest · Jan 2, 2009

Whatever size Glazers list it at, it is whole plate. Ilford special orders come up at intervals but I haven't heard when the next one is to be. Another source is www.sheetfilm.be for Efke film. And another is the Canadian large format site. Or, for another reasonably priced solution, get the Chinese ERA film in 7x17 and cut it down.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 2, 2009

Sean accidentally deleted the thread here explaining it.

There was a long thread here going into extensive detail about the size of that whole plate TMY-2 which Sean accidentally deleted while (if I remember correctly) combining it with another thread.

See my posts in this thread

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=35995

for an explanation of the film's dimensions. Note that, to facilitate the order, I bought 30 boxes. This is way more than I can use and my wife would dearly love to have a bit of her freezer back. Send me a PM if you'd like some film at cost.

Anastigmatic · Jan 3, 2009

jimmyp said:
I see Glazer's lists T-max as 6.4 x 8.4. Is this the same as whole plate?

Edit: Is there a shop that has the ilford whole plate in stock, or do I need to wait for this years order?

it is a curious measurement isn't it! it would just barely catch/fit and not fall through, it wouldnt want to be any smaller! i wonder if its a miss print or not...on another page they say they have 6.5x8.5 film in stock

Anastigmatic · Jan 3, 2009

outwest said:
Whatever size Glazers list it at, it is whole plate. Ilford special orders come up at intervals but I haven't heard when the next one is to be. Another source is www.sheetfilm.be for Efke film. And another is the Canadian large format site. Or, for another reasonably priced solution, get the Chinese ERA film in 7x17 and cut it down.

the wephoto film (the sheetfilm link you provided) is good vaule (only about 12 euro for 25 sheets of 9x12 i think as well).
but they are out of stock of whole plate, have been for a long time as a remember.

Ian Grant · Jan 3, 2009

PHOTOTONE said:
Incorrect. 5x7 international film holders are the same exterior size as "HALF-PLATE" holders, or rather international common Lisco Regal type half-plate holders are the same outside dimensions as common 5x7 film holders.

Whole plate is much bigger holder. About half-way bigger between 5x7 and 8x10 holders...as I look at mine here before me..actually closer in size to 8x10 it seems to me.

Quite right, while I have both formats, half & whole plate, I've never used them as films not been nreadily available

Ian

cdholden · Jan 3, 2009

Anastigmatic said:
the wephoto film (the sheetfilm link you provided) is good vaule (only about 12 euro for 25 sheets of 9x12 i think as well).
but they are out of stock of whole plate, have been for a long time as a remember.

They don't stock 7x17 either. The key is to order it and wait for delivery. It takes some patience, but I received my 7x17 and 2.25x3.25 and plan to order another shot of both in the coming weeks. Next order is early February. Add a few weeks to process and another few to get across the pond and I can get another batch of odd sized film by end of March. 2 months is a lot less wait than an annual film run. If I can work with both, all the better!

Anastigmatic · Jan 3, 2009

cdholden said:
They don't stock 7x17 either. The key is to order it and wait for delivery. It takes some patience, but I received my 7x17 and 2.25x3.25 and plan to order another shot of both in the coming weeks. Next order is early February. Add a few weeks to process and another few to get across the pond and I can get another batch of odd sized film by end of March. 2 months is a lot less wait than an annual film run. If I can work with both, all the better!

that sounds encouraging, so even when it has the 'red' (not the grey box representing item in backorder) box alongside stating 'item is out of order' it is available in a few months?

have you used the wephoto film yet? if so wondering how you found it, 25, 100 or 200 ASA for example. Is it the same as something else under a different name Adox, ELFKE for example? i couldnt find any development details, i presume you have that info?

cheers A/

colrehogan · Jan 4, 2009

The label on the Kodak TMax 400 whole plate film reads as follows:

6 7/16 x 8 7/16 in.

So, yes this is whole plate film and should work fine in whole plate film holders. I have used mine in my Chamonix and my Japanese whole plate film holders with no issues at all.

The Ilford label on their HP5+ whole plate film reads: 6.5 x 8.5 in.

No problems with either of them and I would say, place an order if they have some and have fun shooting. Try The View Camera Store in Arizona for Ilford whole plate film.

cdholden · Jan 4, 2009

Anastigmatic,
That is correct. "Next back-order for out-of-stock film and specialty formats will close on February 10th 2009!" Place your order by Feb 10 and you'll get it shipped to you when it comes in. Mine takes a few weeks longer to arrive due to customs and travel across the pond. Going back into my email, it looks like order to receipt of film was about 6-7 weeks.
I was hoping to take out the 2x3 today, but I got detoured with other tasks. It is rebadged Foma, so look there for dev info. Foma isn't hard to find in the US, but finding it in 2x3 and 7x17 is.
Best of luck,
Chris

clay · Jan 4, 2009

Film is usually under-cut by about 1/16 of an inch from it's nominal size to enable you to get it into a film holder without binding. I once got a box of film from one manufacturer that was accidentally cut to exactly 11x14, and it would not fit in the holders. So yes, the film is whole plate film, but cut to a size to keep your darkroom cursing to a minimum.

Anastigmatic · Jan 5, 2009

undercut by 1/16 is fine of course and what we are used to. i was a bit concerned if the film stated as 6.4 of an inch X 8.4 was then possibly undercut by 1/16 again it would be too small. 1/16 is pretty much 1.5mm whereas 0.1 of an inch is 2.5mm which is a bit loose but if it came in another 1,5mm smaller again (4mm!) it wouldnt be so good. anyways, i will order some and soon find out just for a change of film eh! acording to Diane its just 1/16. thanks also Chris for the info, its always encouraging to hear of others having no problem with a service when wanting to use it for myself. cheers A/

clay · Jan 5, 2009

I have some of this whole plate TMY film, and it fits both the Lotus and the Chamonix holders just fine with no wobble. I have a feeling someone just rounded off the dimensions to one decimal place in the description.

jimmyp · Jan 7, 2009

Thanks for all the help on this issue. I have some whole plate film on the way now. Now I just need a few more holders.... oh, well.

John Shriver · Jan 7, 2009

Glass plates were actually the nominal sizes. So a whole plate really was 6.5 by 8.5 inches, and 4x5 was really 4 by 5 inches.

Cut film (sheet film) is sized to fit into film sheaths, which were metal adapters to allow plate holders to hold film. (Plates were typically held in compression in plate holders, so the film sheaths were stiff.) They normally had folded over lips on the long side of the film (at least), so the film had to be smaller in that dimension to allow for the lips. Each size of film sheath had a different design, so there's no standard formula to go from plate size to cut film size.

I presume that it was Kodak that established the dimensions of the film sheaths in the first place, and made cut film to match them. Those cut film sizes became the standard.

Anastigmatic · Jan 8, 2009

John, thats pretty much the case for the folding plate cameras, like the black leather covered wood or metal cameras, such as the Bergheil, Vag, Arvus, Recomar ect ect, the various makers list is long. they take the metal glass plate holders that with a metal film sheath inserted convert them to take the nominal size film, which is in fact as you say, smaller than what the glass plate was.

however, so far as i have ever seen and all the ones i have, with the whole plate (and other original plate size film from pre 1900's) the cameras are generaly those of the veiw/field camera design (there are others too) and they use the wooden bookform film holders.

these type dont need (use) a metal film sheath at all (likely it would be in the way), the film fits in precicly where the glass plate originaly did (cant fall through because it sits on the same lip as the glass did) and a flat board is placed behind the film (if viewed from the front), on top as you have the book holder open, load the film, and then the spacer board to make up the thickness of the origial glass plate. many of the old cameras using wooden bookform holders often arrive with a board of some sort in them already (indicating the camera had at one time in the past been used with normal film), sometimes with notes or some other things stuck to them indicating the date they were last used, which is often pre-war is some instances. so for these film replacements the film simply needs to be the original size, just as it was for glass plate...unlike the 6.5x9, 9x12, 10x15 so on and so on glass plate film replacements of other formats...

whole plate t-max sizes

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