Who uses graded paper?

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 9, 2021

When I first started to study photography over 40 years ago, I was fortunate enough to see photo stores back in the day when I saw graded paper in the store. I never learned to print with them but used them on occasion. Back in the 80's, I've heard from an older classmate said variable contrast paper isn't as good because they "split tone" means that the 2 emulsions will tone differently. I never verified that statement.
I did make some prints with some old Oriental graded paper last week from a batch I got as a darkroom setup. If I'm lucky, I'll get a print out of using it.
I was looking at Freestyle's website and they still sell graded paper. How many of you that do darkroom prints use graded paper as the preferred paper? I think it takes a photographer that is technically disciplined to use it.

Tom Kershaw · Mar 9, 2021

I use Ilfobrom Galerie, very high quality product. I do mean to try the Foma graded papers at some point as well.

MattKing · Mar 9, 2021

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Back in the 80's, I've heard from an older classmate said variable contrast paper isn't as good because they "split tone" means that the 2 emulsions will tone differently. I never verified that statement.

Don't worry about that. The emulsion components in variable contrast paper aren't laid down in separate layers, they are all intermixed together.
And once they are developed, they respond the same way to toner.
I only use graded paper when someone gifts it to me, and I feel like having fun experimenting with it.

Ko.Fe. · Mar 9, 2021

Every time I see old SG FB DR paper I'm buying it. Agfa, Ilford are good.
I prefer it to fresh MG RC DR paper and it is less expensive than any fresh MG FB DR paper.

Alan9940 · Mar 9, 2021

I use Adox Lupex and Lodima for contact printing and, occasionally, use Ilford Galerie for enlargements. I tried the Foma graded paper, but its inherent contrast was just too much for my taste, but it is a nice paper. I could use a soft working paper developer or "split" development in something like Selectol Soft and my regular formula to mitigate the contrast somewhat, but never got that far into it.

removedacct1 · Mar 9, 2021

I still use a dwindling supply of Agfa Portriga Rapid, but when its gone, I will gladly use Bergger's Warmtone FB Ivory as a substitute. It comes mighty close to Portriga Rapid in look when developed in ID-78

Nicholas Lindan · Mar 9, 2021

Modern graded papers seem to be VC papers that can't be VC printed. Like VC papers they have two emulsions of different sensitivity and so you may again end up with split toning problems. Regular VC paper has two emulsions but one of them is orthochromatic and sensitive to green light.

The graded paper I miss is Brovira #6, it could salvage an acceptable (in the loosest sense of the word) print when I had really muffed the exposure or I was taking candle lit scenes hand-held on Plus-X. "Shadow detail? We don' need no steenkin' shadow detail. We don' need no midtone detail neether. An' we don' do no pooshin." They could look rather nice.

Paul Howell · Mar 9, 2021

I have a small supply of Salvich #2 FB, and some Ultrafine Grade 3 in RC, for the most part I have switched to Foma VC RC and fiber base as grade 2 papers are really hard to find. not sure if any one still makes any graded paper other than Grade 3.

Donald Qualls · Mar 9, 2021

I recall back in the 1970s when I was first learning this stuff that you could (with some effort) get graded papers from about Grade 1 to Grade 5, occasionally Grade 6. In the 21st century, I've only seen Grade 2 and Grade 3. Are other grades still made?

Alan9940 · Mar 9, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I recall back in the 1970s when I was first learning this stuff that you could (with some effort) get graded papers from about Grade 1 to Grade 5, occasionally Grade 6. In the 21st century, I've only seen Grade 2 and Grade 3. Are other grades still made?

Ilford has only grade 3 Galerie anymore. Foma produces graded paper in what they term Special (grade 2), Normal (grade 3), and Hard (grade 4.) I've only ever used the "Normal" grade Foma paper and it seems to have a bit more contrast than Galerie of the same grade number.

DREW WILEY · Mar 9, 2021

There are very few graded options anymore. And discontinued old enlarging paper generally turns out disappointing; it doesn't keep forever. It's a new era. I used wonderful graded papers like Oriental Seagull G, Brilliant Bromide, Portriga, EMaks, and sometimes Ilford Galerie. That was mostly when VC papers were still so-so, and of limited selection. Today it's the other way around, and VC papers now have the upper hand in terms of top quality, ease of use, and sheer versatility. But there were specific looks I could obtain with certain graded papers which I found rewarding.

Donald Qualls · Mar 9, 2021

michael_r said:
Keep in mind you can lower any grade of paper by about a grade (give or take) by flashing. I demonstrated that somewhere on here years ago. It’s simple to do.

There's also variations in developer formula, good for half a grade or so; that means your with Foma you could get something like Grade 1 to Grade 4. I guess it's a good thing I've got a color head now...

grain elevator · Mar 9, 2021

I used graded paper (for non-lith printing) for the first time not long ago, when I decided to make some prints on old Agfa Brovira grade 4 that I bought for lith. It worked well and I'll do more of that. I'm under the impression that it has a longer toe than the multigrade papers I've otherwise used, which makes highlights look good even when it's a bit too hard. And I helped that along by flashing.
I used to think I'd hate not being able to make prints from certain negatives with only one sort of graded paper. I won't do it for certain projects. I probably won't buy new graded paper. But I will continue to print stuff where I just feel like it on old graded paper.

thefizz · Mar 9, 2021

I occasionally use Slavich Unibrom for cool tone and Bromportrait for warm tone with Dr. Beers two-bath developer. They are beautiful papers.

Vaughn · Mar 9, 2021

If I were to get back into silver gelatin enlarging again, I would miss my old graded papers, but feel I could find the right combination including a VC paper into the mix.

It has been about 30 years since I migrated to alt. printing. The first two years was fumbling around with a process, exploring its capabilities, trying to craft negatives that would keep up with the discoveries and respond to the changes I was making with the process. Way too many variables at the same time! Otherwise I probably could have nailed it in 3 months, but without the discoveries/changes that influence my photography today. And one is the joy of crafting a negative that matches the material I am printing with in relation to what I want to see in the print (as opposed to trying to find a way to print a difficult negative).

Wayne · Mar 9, 2021

I have some lovely graded Fortezo in my freezer that I pull out now and then. I generally don't buy graded papers anymore because there's no need to. VC papers are good enough, far better than my B&W photography.

Sirius Glass · Mar 9, 2021

I may still have a package or two, but I have not used it in years.

Lachlan Young · Mar 9, 2021

I think the main graded FB papers on the market currently are:

Ilford Galerie G3 glossy (slightly softer G3)

Fomabrom 111 and 112 in Normal (harder G3) and Contrast (harder G4)

Foma Retrobrom 151 and 152 in Special (slightly soft G2) - the matte has some sheen to it.

Adox Lupex (Nominally G3)

Slavich Unibrom - gloss & matte, looks like G3/ Normal & G4/ Contrast are the variants currently available.

With the right neg, Galerie & the various Foma papers are excellent - but I've also seen far too many prints over the years that show up the limitations of trying to force a neg onto a single grade of paper.

@Donald Qualls - Agfa seem to historically have used 1-6 for their grades with Brovira, when everyone else used 0-5 - and the '6' doesn't seem to have been any harder than a current '5' on MG papers - but in the past things like Kodabromide G5 had about the same scale as many modern MG papers have between G4-4.5 (and about the same as Fomabrom 'C'). More confusingly in the grade system used by some European manufacturers, it often seemed to run 'Soft' = G1, 'Normal' = G3, 'Hard' = G4, thus the rather confusing 'Special' for G2.

Donald Qualls · Mar 10, 2021

Sigh.

There were advantages to having only one choice (Kodak), back in the day. Learn one product and then spend your time and energy getting the most out of that. I guess I'll stick with multigrade/variable contrast. One box (at a time) and done.

Well, even then, Kodak sold a bunch of different products, but they were pretty strongly oriented for one kind of printing. This (slow emulsion) for contact printing, that (faster) for enlarging, at the least.

AgX · Mar 10, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
@Donald Qualls - Agfa seem to historically have used 1-6 for their grades with Brovira, when everyone else used 0-5 - and the '6' doesn't seem to have been any harder than a current '5' on MG papers - but in the past things like Kodabromide G5 had about the same scale as many modern MG papers have between G4-4.5 (and about the same as Fomabrom 'C'). More confusingly in the grade system used by some European manufacturers, it often seemed to run 'Soft' = G1, 'Normal' = G3, 'Hard' = G4, thus the rather confusing 'Special' for G2.

Agfa offered 7 grades, designated by letters.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 10, 2021

Years ago when people were dumping their darkroom gear, I was at a thrift store. My wife saw a pile of darkroom gear for $100. The pile contained very expensive gear and over a dozen boxes of graded Oriental Seagull. There were 11x14 and 16x20 with grades 1-4. I have a feeling that the paper was from the 80's. I made a few good prints with the paper. I think the previous owner was a follower of Ansel Adams. The kit included quite of few packs of Dektol and Selectol. Back in the day. When a paper's contrast didn't fit your negatives range of contrast, one could tweak it by using different developers. I think there were hardcore graded paper users shunning the use of MG papers for whatever reason. I printed with MG paper for decades and 5 years ago, I discovered split grade printing on the internet. This separation of printing highlights and shadows is made possible by MG papers. I still print mostly with one filter grade and I'm slowly learning the finer points of split grade printing. I really don't know if there are any darkroom printers that remember the days of graded paper only around. I'm sure that photographers 60 years ago had to have their negatives dialed in to to limitations of printing materials. 25 years ago when I worked in a lab, there was an old Brooks graduate said that a photographer should "build a negative" for a paper. I'm assuming a graded paper.

Maris · Mar 10, 2021

Way back when I was setting up my first darkroom I remember hating graded paper because of the sheer expense.
Instead of a nice box of Multigrade I had to buy grades 1 to 5 in 100 sheet boxes to be ready for any and all negatives.
That's 500 sheets ($$$) of photographic paper just to get started!
Then to cut costs I bought single weight instead of double weight which was a sharp lesson in getting fibre base prints flat.
Then grades 2, 3, and 4 would run out and I hoped the local camera store would have that grade in that size in stock; not always.
Then grades 1 and 5 would die of old age in the box.

Modern variable contrast papers make darkroom work a pleasure. And split grade techniques can do thing the old Zone System can't.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 10, 2021

Maris said:
Way back when I was setting up my first darkroom I remember hating graded paper because of the sheer expense.
Instead of a nice box of Multigrade I had to buy grades 1 to 5 in 100 sheet boxes to be ready for any and all negatives.
That's 500 sheets ($$$) of photographic paper just to get started!
Then to cut costs I bought single weight instead of double weight which was a sharp lesson in getting fibre base prints flat.
Then grades 2, 3, and 4 would run out and I hoped the local camera store would have that grade in that size in stock; not always.
Then grades 1 and 5 would die of old age in the box.

Modern variable contrast papers make darkroom work a pleasure. And split grade techniques can do thing the old Zone System can't.

I appreciate your input. I never really bought graded paper when it was new. I took my first photo class back in 1980 and the college professors never told us to use it. All my printing experience is from using MG paper without split grade printing. This old cat just learned how. But I still go back to my old printing habits. Just gotta do it more. I'm sure you have a greater appreciation of MG paper than I do from your experience.

Lachlan Young · Mar 10, 2021

AgX said:
Agfa offered 7 grades, designated by letters.

They certainly seem to have had 7 grade designations, though not necessarily all on the same product line - most of the product lines seem to have incorporated some/ all of these 6, ranged soft to hard & with the numbers (in brackets) that Agfa seemed to have given some of the grades in certain markets:

Extra Weich - G0 (1)
Weich - G1 (2)
Spezial - G2 (3)
Normal - G3 (4)
Hart - G4 (5)
Extra Hart - G5 (6) (Brovira's ISO(R) for this grade is recorded as 50 - same as most MG papers with a G5 filter)

Apart from Portriga Rapid which went:

Weich - G1
Normal - G3
Kräftig - G4

Except that in ISO(R) terms, PRN = Record Rapid Spezial and PRK = Record Rapid Normal (or a very little bit harder).

For the large part these named grade definitions seem to have remained relatively unchanged between the era of the BIOS/ FIAT reports and the 1990s.

AgX · Mar 10, 2021

Yes, by the late 70's I find both, letters and figures listed.

And by then they already only offered 6 grades at maximum. Grade 7 likely even before was a rare breed. The most choices with Brovira RC. And grade 0 already being phased out.

Who uses graded paper?

Mainecoonmaniac

Tom Kershaw

MattKing

Moderator

Ko.Fe.

Alan9940

removedacct1

Nicholas Lindan

Advertiser

Paul Howell

Donald Qualls

Alan9940

DREW WILEY

Donald Qualls

grain elevator

thefizz

Vaughn

Wayne

Sirius Glass

Lachlan Young

Donald Qualls

AgX

Mainecoonmaniac

Maris

Mainecoonmaniac

Lachlan Young

AgX

Who uses graded paper?

Moderator

Advertiser

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency