... Take the Becher's Grundformen, for instance. All those photographs are, are mug shots of buildings.
Not art to me, because for the life of me, i can't see how that would be important, or valuable for the way i live my life. ...
I don't share your view on the necessity for art to have value or significance, because to me it's sufficient if art is simply beautiful. [...]
The appreciation for art is more of a mystery than art itself.
... In short: what is the importance of the conscious, deliberate act exactly?
In my definition, the importance of including some level of consciousness is to exclude the accidental or lucky incident. Art is not the result of luck, it's the result of a conscious and creative process.
Well, there is your particular value, your particular significance. ...
... Have you ever explored why you like things that are simply beautiful?
... Someone may be obsessed with something, making many different attempts to make sense of that something by trying to create some order that reflects the yet understood essence of that something. The result may be an impressive body of works of art, without the creator ever having wanted to create an impressive body of works of art.
All he wanted was to make sense of something that for some reason or another was important to him.
Art doesn't have to be the result of a conscious attempt to create art.
I need to be clearer. I do not believe that a creative piece of work needs to be significant in any way, shape or form to be art.
Of course, and found that beauty and significance has nothing to do with each other, but beauty and art are closely related.
Agreed, but it has to be a conscious effort of some sort, as in your example.
Ralph,
I think you're original comment some messages back that "I seriously question people claiming that they don't require such reward." is probably closer to the mark than I would have admitted prior to this conversation. And after being tasked to critically evaluate it, I concur that your assessment of my mother's work is probably more correct than my own "idealized" memory. She got paid in the currency that she valued - approval of her peers.
All that aside, I still postulate that an "art doodling" compulsion exists that compels many artists to produce things without regard to reward, and I'll further postulate that exhibition of work prompts the artist to refine the piece - regardless of medium - in ways that are specifically done to receive the reward.
So, after several hours of thinking about this I'll take the position that we're really looking at a two tier rather than a monolithic phenomena. The expressive side, whether the agonizing child birth kind or the serendipitous enlightenment kind Jason speaks about, is done without regard to reward. But the refinement of the expression is done specifically as a reward generator.
For example, a la Jason's model, one of my best works is a rather simple picture of wooden stairs that are the dune crossover at a beach. When I made the exposure I didn't really think about it too much. I was looking for something to illustrate DOF receding from the lens. But in the contact prints it became clear to me that there was potential in the shot beyond what I originally recognized, and some judicious cropping made it into a picture that is on display at my brother in law's house. The original compulsion for the exposure was merely "that's kind of interesting." But the hours of work for the enlargement/matting/framing were seeking the reward of approval by others.
MB
I understand the question and the sentiments behind what it took to ask it. I feel the same too many times, but I still do this stuff. Why is that? Must be love. It can't be because I'm smart. Who would dump their entire life effort into anything, blindly, and due to GAS never has money to do anything like grown up people do? I've always followed my passions. I think it is important to do so, even if nobody truly appreciates your work.
But on the other hand, all that stuff I said could be thrown out the window by a profit minded capitalist with a lucky camera. In fact I see a successful photographer selling prints right now that look like dog sh*t.
Art serves two main purposes in present societies:
- Propaganda
- Entertainment
There is also the third
- Collectible product
Science, philosophy, art, are the only ways for humanity to advance and have a purpose for existence other than mere instinctual survival, but that's not when humans are mere resources.
Every magazine editor, book publisher, art director, advertiser, gallery owner, art lover & collector, reader, web surfer, museum goer, thinker, and the list goes on - all these NEED fine art. It's everywhere, and to the point that we often miss it.
But very creative people are working hard everyday making just about everything you see in our communication saturated world.
But maybe you mean something framed and put on a wall, that's "expressing" some esoteric, intangible yet profound secret, with a price tag under it? People need those too - and they pay good money for them.
Who buys art? Lots of people do. Every time you see a gallery do some math, and start by wondering how that business survives paying prime retail rent while keeping a mostly empty space. If it's there longer than a year or two, or if it's there for years, it's because people buy art.
This might be at the root of the OP's question, in which case I can only say:
Keep going, and make sure you know what you're doing it for (I hope it's not money or global fame).
Photography can also 'just' be a nice hobby. It doesn't have to be art, does it?
Does all photography really need to be art? Can it not just be fun and hobby to some? Photography can be art, but it doesn't have to be!
I believe there is vast difference between subconscious and unconscious....
I've heard it said that our best work is often a manifestation of that which we are unable to express any other way... and I largely agree.
The whole point of art is that it's useless, it doesn't feed us, clothe us or enhance our lives in a practical, measurable way. Instead it's the raison d'etre of all the practical, measurable activities.
My question is why even cave folk still create art despite barely scratching out an existence? It's one of those human activities that isn't necessary for existence, but it's part of what makes us human. Art makes the difference between existing and living.
There are at least two things that make us human. One is to create art, the other is to ask questions.
art is junk
thread over
i thought i locked this thread earlier
But further critical thinking on your question makes me wonder; if the observers weren't there, would the artist still do the work? Can you reevaluate the concept of "customer" to include the emotional satisfaction derived from some other person's appreciation of the work. Specifically, would the artist still create the work if it was never to see the light of day, remaining forever unobserved and not exhibited?
But I also think there is some level of compulsion for expression through images in some people, much as there is a compulsion toward expression through language in most people.
Do you seriously make photographs for other people?...I do it to keep breathing.
I don't mind if other people like how my breath smells
Art is happily incidental to some of my photography.
I too shoot for myself. I need the time out with one of my beloved classic old cameras, and I need the time in my darkroom making my prints. It keeps me sane, and sober. I like to share my work with my freinds, and I like to share my knowledge with others. If, some where down this road, I sell one or two pieces, that's great, but I shhot for myself, and my well being.
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