Who makes the most user-friendly reels?

Diapositivo · Jun 4, 2011

I suggest you post here a picture of your film leader after you cut it. With plastic reels I had problems until I understood I made two mistakes in cutting (shaping) the leader to insert in the reel. Plastic reels want the film to advance, for its entire length, inside the spiral. The cut must be straight, and the corners must be well rounded, not clipped at 45°. The leader is the head of the "train" and it goes along the narrower bend inside the reel. If not properly cut it will resist advancement. After I learned to properly cut the leader my loading become very fast and trouble-free. I use Jobo series 1500 reels.

Also, I don't know if you use the trick of inserting the leader inside the reel while still in daylight. You then insert reel and film inside the changing bag, with all the rest (scissors, tank, tank lid etc.) and close the bag. Then you insert your hands inside the bag slowly and gently "looking" for the reel, and begin loading the film. I would never manage to put the leader inside the reel while operating inside the changing bag. It's much easier if you do this worst part in daylight.

Finally, you could build a sort of "cage" with "iron thread" (I don't know if that's the correct term in English. I think you get what I mean) and put this cage inside the changing bag. That would keep the bag away from the hands and make for a bigger air volume inside (less heat and less concentration of humidity).

As an alternative you could buy a "changing tent" instead of a "changing bag". The former are bigger and have a frame inside to keep them in "inflated" shape.

Regarding the sacrificial roll, the obvious suggestion would be to practice with it in the changing bag, not only in daylight.

Hope this helps
Fabrizio

Neal · Jun 4, 2011

Dear postalman,

Good news! Believe it or not, you are more than coordinated enough to load film reels in a changing bag and enough rolls have been processed using Paterson reels to establish out that they are of good design. Clean your reels, make sure the ball bearings are free and move nicely, practice in the daylight a few times. I find that high humidity makes it more difficult if that is of any value to you.

Good luck, you will work it out,

Neal Wydra

Konical · Jun 4, 2011

"Konical - I'm mostly 120 with a dash of 135 thrown in, and I'm really (pun not intended!) looking for a 120 solution. I think that Hewes idea of saying "we'll do 135 well and 120 well, rather than adjustable less well" is great, but after having a quick play with their 120 reel at my local shop, I'm not ready to give up on a plastic solution yet."

Good Morning, Postalman,

I've not used Hewes 120 reels, so I can't comment on those. For 120, I've found nothing that comes close to Kinderman reels; they have a puncturing pin at the center which helps make loading virtually foolproof. Loading 120 onto a Kinderman is about the fastest, simplest darkroom procedure I can think of.

Konical

Vonder · Jun 4, 2011

Clean reels are essential. You should use an old toothbrush and scrub them spotless, then the film will slide on. Even a couple rolls of film developed will make the reels dirty. They need regular washing with soap to stay clean, unlike stainless steel which simply need a hot water rinse.

jp498 · Jun 4, 2011

I never wash my paterson reels aside from the wash they get with the film. The darkroom is kept dust free and I don't put the reels in photoflo either, so I might be doing things a little different.

I don't use hypo-eliminator either. I just let it wash for 30 minutes or so. That might help soak off anything that would otherwise build up on the reels.

after the film is done washing, I take it off the reel and slide it through a bath of distilled water+alcohol+drops of photoflo. Reels get set aside to dry for future use. I do this in a 5x7 tray since distilled water isn't cheap for me and I don't need a large volume for this step with a small tray.

Steve Smith · Jun 4, 2011

Kaiser reels have huge guide tabs leading the film in and are easy to load.... But so are Paterson reels if they are clean and totally dry.

http://www.harpersphoto.co.uk/product/kaiser_universal_developing_tank_4297_017390_/

http://www.collegecameras.co.uk/ima...iser-self-winding-reel-4298/k4298-120x120.jpg

Steve.

mwdake · Jun 4, 2011

My main complaint is the guide flange is far too small for 120 film

I've used Patetson reels for 40 years or so.

All great advice received so far; but here is a simple trick to getting the 120 started on the reel.
It gives the stiffness and guide to get the roll started in to the flanges...

Cut a piece of the film box to be the same width as 120 film and about 2 or 3 inches long.

Before you go in the darkroom slide this piece of card along the reel tracks into the beginning of the reel but not past the little ball bearings. Now when in the darkroom take your film and slide it along the card until it is past the ball bearings and pull in a bit more then remove the card and load in the normal way. You see the card acts like a guide and makes those springy films easier to get started.

I most often reverse curl the first 1/2 inch or so of my film before loading to help with the springiness.
I still have the same bit of card I cut out of a Fuji box a couple of years ago, I only replace it if it gets lost of to banged up.

Jeff Kubach · Jun 4, 2011

I like my Patterson reels!

Jeff

John Koehrer · Jun 4, 2011

I've used Paterson, Nikor, Kindermann, generic steel and Hewes.
They all worked for me but I preferred the steel reels, I just didn't care for walking the film into the reel and prefer starting at the center and loading the film fromo the center.

P C Headland · Jun 4, 2011

For 120, I really like the Gepe "dubbeltank" with auto loader. I bought this for 1 at a classic camera fair in Holland. It's a plastic reel with loading guide, unlike many plastic reels, it is a centre loader. I've never had an issue with it, even when developing one roll straight after another. It takes less than 10 seconds to load a roll once it's clipped onto the centre. These do pop up on ebay, and it seems to have been sold under several brands.

I also have a Jobo tank with adjustable reels. That uses the push/twist type loading, and while I've never had a problem loading it, I always worry more when taking the developed roll off the reel - no problems so far, but I'm always more worried.

For 35mm, I have a small SS tank and SS reel (with the prongs). I'm not sure it's a Hewes reel, but it does look similar. I start that one in daylight with the film still in the cannister, then put the whole lot in the dark bag and continue from there. The riskiest part is cutting the film at the end in the dark.....

Whatever your reel, take things slowly and if it doesn't feel quite right, stop, go back a bit, then start again.

I clean all reels after with some dishwashing liquid and an old toothbrush.

Ian David · Jun 4, 2011

If you are still new to film processing and looking to buy new reels, I reckon you should just go straight to the SS ones. Send an email to Hewes, and they will post to you direct for cheaper than you will buy them new anywhere else. Practice loading them while you watch TV - once you get the hang of it, it will become second nature. Don't drop them onto a concrete floor and they will last you a lifetime.

Ian

Monito · Jun 4, 2011

If humidity in the bag is a problem, load each roll one at a time and put in the tank and close the tank. Open the bag completely and air it out for a minute to let fresh air in. Close up and do the next roll.

I've used Paterson and stainless steel with great success. I tend to prefer stainless steel.

ArtTwisted · Jun 4, 2011

I started out with Paterson reels for 135 and 120 under a black blanket in my bedroom, mostly at night. Try it, it really works, and you would have more room to move around with the reels.

Diapositivo · Jun 5, 2011

P C Headland said:
I also have a Jobo tank with adjustable reels. That uses the push/twist type loading, and while I've never had a problem loading it, I always worry more when taking the developed roll off the reel - no problems so far, but I'm always more worried.

[...]
For 35mm, I have a small SS tank and SS reel (with the prongs). I'm not sure it's a Hewes reel, but it does look similar. I start that one in daylight with the film still in the cannister, then put the whole lot in the dark bag and continue from there. The riskiest part is cutting the film at the end in the dark.....
[...]

In order to avoid stress to the film I first take the last bit of film out of the reel, clip the clip on it, hang it with all the film still on reel, then disengage the two halves of the reel, separating them just a bit, and move down while keeping them near each other. The film will gently "unroll" from the reel without any friction along the film guides and my hands won't touch it. At the other hand I seize the tail with one hand and clip the leaded clip with the other.

I have difficulties in using the scissors in the changing bag too. I have to take care not to cut the bag tissue, which tends to fall over the hands, the inner bag is not visible so I'm not that comfortable, and I even find difficult to actually put the film inside the two blades.
Now I use small scissors (the ones for nails) that give be better "control" over what am I cutting. I find it is also not such a bad idea to just tear the film with your hands (that wouldn't work with polyester film though).

Gary Rowlands · Jun 5, 2011

Great enthusiasm here for Hewes reels, but can I ask what tanks you use with them ? From what I read, Hewes don't make cylindrical, daylight loading tanks.

Does anybody suggest that processing is better with SS reels, or is it just a film loading issue/ preference ?

Konical · Jun 5, 2011

Good Morning, Gary,

Mostly it's a film loading issue; once the film is on a SS reel, it doesn't really matter what brand the reel is. I don't know if Hewes makes any tanks or not, but it doesn't matter because almost all standard SS reels can be used in a tank of any manufacturer. The obvious exception would be the larger SS reels made for 220 film.

Konical

Sirius Glass · Jun 5, 2011

Diapositivo said:
I have difficulties in using the scissors in the changing bag too. I have to take care not to cut the bag tissue, which tends to fall over the hands, the inner bag is not visible so I'm not that comfortable, and I even find difficult to actually put the film inside the two blades.
Now I use small scissors (the ones for nails) that give be better "control" over what am I cutting. I find it is also not such a bad idea to just tear the film with your hands (that wouldn't work with polyester film though).

Use a larger bag such as Photoflex Changing Room, platinum series.

Steve

Gary Rowlands · Jun 5, 2011

Konical said:
Good Morning, Gary,

Mostly it's a film loading issue; once the film is on a SS reel,
Konical

Many thanks, Konical.

I've been using Paterson reels and tanks since Ansel was a boy and have a substantial stock of tanks and reels.

I have had occasional problems with loading, but always have an additional reel on hand for those events. If I get a reel that sticks regularly, I clean it with a toothbrush and paste to help the film glide through in future. I'll use scissors to chamfer the leading edge corners to stop them digging into the reel on it's way through, bit more difficult with 35mm. If it sticks at any point when loading, a sharp tap on the bench is usually enough. So there are occasional issues with Paterson tanks and if I were starting again I'd go SS. I would now if there was a processing benefit.

Gave up on changing bags years ago. Utter waste of time, IMO, for anything other than emergency us in the field. Clammy hands and arms quickly jam the reels and dust is an issue. The table top changing tents are a much better option, IMO.

Konical · Jun 5, 2011

Good Afternoon, Gary,

My comment above should have been more specific. I was referring only to SS tanks and reels. SS reels will certainly fit into Paterson tanks, but those tanks require the large center post to be light-tight. That post has a diameter which is too large for any SS reels I've ever seen. It is not, however, any problem to acquire SS tanks; they're easily available on the used market, usually at almost give-away prices. The ones with plastic lids (Kinderman is typical) are less likely to leak than those with SS lids. Replacement plastic lids are not hard to find either.

Konical

Tim Gray · Jun 5, 2011

If you want hewes reels for cheaper, keep an eye out on Ebay or here in the classifieds. You can get them for $8ish/reel. I use them with the generic plastic top steel tanks that Freestyle sells. They work fine. But in the big picture, $40 for two nice reels that will last a lifetime is a good purchase, especially if it prevents you from ruining film.

Plastic reels are fine too, I just found Hewes easier to load when I started, so I stuck with it. One thing I do to make my life easier with 35mm film is to use a film leader retriever. In daylight, I extract the leader of all my rolls and trim them straight with scissors. Then you can load it all into a bag or your dark room and finish the process in darkness. You can either load your reels directly from the film canister or pop them open and do it that way. But why try to make that first cut in darkness when you can do it in daylight?

postalman · Jun 5, 2011

Well, I tried last night using my bedroom as a darkroom to try eliminating the changing bag. Blinds closed, the only other concession to "darkroom" was throwing a towel under the door to block out light from the kitchen. The film came out fine (to my untrained eye) despite a car driving past and blasting headlights through the cracks in the blinds. But, it did still take far too long to load 120 onto the paterson reels (estimate 10 min), with all the same loading difficulties as in the bag.

Conclusion: I'm replacing the paterson reels with AP or clones, as soon as I can find some. Anyone know how to get some to Aus without the $40 shipping?

Also, whilst the room was dark, it was light enough that about 5 min was required for eyes to adjust to the point I could see almost normally. Once my eyes adjusted I was freaking out that it was too bright for 400 film, turns out it was ok. Which raises the question, if it is light enough to see with some difficulty after 5 min adjustment, what films will be ruined? 400 is OK so I assume anything slower will also be fine, but I've got some Ilford 3200 I was planning to push a stop or two, will it be OK under those conditions?

Fun fact: the human eye responds to a single photon, and registers light as an image at about 4-5 photons per receptor cell. That's better than high-end astrophysics and photometry sensing gear. That's why I ask about films threshold.

Monito · Jun 6, 2011

You may think you didn't get fogging with ISO 400 film, but you can have fogging and it not be visible to cursory inspection. Until you do test strips to test it, you don't know.

ISO 3200 is three stops more sensitive. If (if) 10 minutes is the edge of fogging at ISO 400 in your conditions, then 600/8 = 75 seconds would be the edge of fogging with ISO 3200 film. Push it a stop or two and it will be 37 seconds or 17 seconds.

I think if you can "see almost normally", then it is much to bright to use for ISO 400, let alone 3200. I personally would not load ISO 25 under such conditions.

Monito · Jun 6, 2011

Loading reels is like playing a musical instrument. If violinists can hit and control 1/16 notes in pitch and key without frets while bowing with it all in the air, then millions of photographers can load film using Paterson reels in changing bags. Oh, wait ... millions of photographers load film with Paterson reels in changing bags. But really, it is much easier than playing the violin.

Practice.

mwdake · Jun 6, 2011

But, it did still take far too long to load 120 onto the paterson reels (estimate 10 min), with all the same loading difficulties as in the bag.

Practice and you will be able to do it in a minute or less.
And try the piece of card trick I posted in an earlier post, it is cheaper than a wide flange reel and works just as well.

Sirius Glass · Jun 6, 2011

The movement under sheets and blankets can cause electo-static discharge which will leave artifacts on the latent image. This is not a good way to go. Get a changing bag or a changing room http://www.freestylephoto.biz/25001-Photoflex-Changing-Room from one of our sponsors, FreeStyle.

Steve

Who makes the most user-friendly reels?

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