Who has tried slide film in a "better" box camera?

Willy T · Jun 21, 2024

A Zeiss Box Tengor, say, in conditions where the range is not too extreme. Or even tried it with a less-polished camera, like an Agfa Clack.

Dan Daniel · Jun 21, 2024

Haven't tried it, but this issue of course is exposure. Slide film needs a pretty precise exposure to get the look you want. Not sure if box camera will provide the adjustments and precision needed.

loccdor · Jun 21, 2024

One thing you could do in a camera with no adjustment is a variable ND filter.

AZD · Jun 21, 2024

I haven’t tried but probably will at some point. It’s certainly possible. All you really need to know is what the camera’s real shutter speed and aperture are.

The shutter can be estimated by making a phone video while tripping the lever several times. Use slow motion to establish how many hundredths of a second it is open, then calculate. Might take several tries. Not super accurate, but good enough. Average out your various trips and it’ll be fine.

If you have a drill bit set you can, on many box cameras, insert them directly into the aperture until one fits pretty close. Then measure the distance from the aperture to the film plane. Divide the drill diameter into the film plane distance and there’s your f stop.

With this method I measured an old Agfa camera at 1/20 and f16.

Now find light that is good for 1/20 at f16 (or whatever) and iso 100, presumably. Use a meter to see where the good light is.

You’ll be limited of course, but too much light can be cut with an ND.

Too little light can be compensated with the Bulb exposure. You’ll need a tripod, or a table, or a car hood, or a big rock.

I figure it’s about a $25 experiment at local prices, relatively inexpensive for the knowledge. And kind of fun working within those limits. You might end up with something interesting.

MattKing · Jun 21, 2024

Try a test with something cheaper first, to pin down what the aperture and shutter speed actually is.
Ektachrome in a pinhole camera - for WWPD a few years ago:

Donald Qualls · Jun 21, 2024

I've done this a couple times -- back around 1976 and again in the '80s, with non-adjustable cameras. It's really not that difficult, if the film speed matches what the camera was made for. I shot Ektachrome 64 in a 127 Brownie of some stripe (4x6.5 frame) and all eight frames looked good, and much later I shot (IIRC) the old Ektachrome 100 in a square 127 camera and got very viewable super slides (that frame the lab mounted). E100 would be fine in many of the 1950s vintage box cameras, as long as you shoot in something close to full daylight (no clouds, minimal shade, high sun, etc.).

Paul Howell · Jun 21, 2024

I haven't but knew a commercial photographer who shot with a Kodak Tourist, not the high end, the rock bottom with 3 element lens and just a couple of shutter speeds. He used it for assignments that called for an somewhat fuzzy old time look, he shot Ektachrome and verichrome pan, last assignment that I recall was for Sunset the story was about a chuck wagon cookout, sometime in the late 70s. At the time most magazines wanted transpanies, color was pretty good, exposure was aided by an overcast.

Willy T · Jun 21, 2024

Gentlemen, thanks to all. This is extremely encouraging information.

Dan, I'm with you on the qualms & dubiousness here. I got the Horse Laugh when I posited such a thing at the local camera shop

Matt, that pinhole/Ektachrome is a beaut! I should think that a 56/2 Box Tengor's lens will at least get some sort of acceptable results. With luck. Maybe.

Donald, the heart gladdens with your experiences!

So ostensible aperture choices are f/9, f/11/ and f/16

As soon as the "heat dome" weather cools a lttle bit, I thought to try a bit of Ektachrome 100 down at a former planation in late but still brightish afternoon.

The shutter speed on these things depends on who you ask: I've read 1/30th, 1/45th, 1/50th. This 56/2 is really clean; seems snappy, but really should try to determine what the actual speed is.

I've just taken a sample reading with an old Calcu Light X in the mix of full sun and bright open shade of the yard here at 5:30 pm.

Standing in the shade of the house, I get an EV of 38 at ISO 100. At f/11, meter wants right on a 50th sec; at f/16, a mere tad less than a 30th. Don't anticipate many deep shadows - seems to be a ballpark large enough to play in. Hopefully. The early evenings are very bright. Plan to be going in about the same conditions.

Overexposure may be the greater challenge if the actual speed is on the slower (1/30th) side with 100 speed film, right? ... and it would be nice to try a variety, so; cheap ND filter - how to affix? I can find inexpensive squarish types, but fixing them to the front of the glass...without vignetting? Maybe tape-up a "holder" of sorts with stiff card stock. Any thoughts?

Braced monopod, short cable release, and a bit of luck; should be fun and may get something - I'll get quite a few tries.

Thanks again to all - working without a net and not a lot of insight.

Slixtiesix · Jul 27, 2024

I have used slide film successfully with my Agfa Isola. The results were better than I expected. Nice contrast and reasonably sharp. As others said, there are restrictions, since box cameras only have very few shutter speeds and slide film needs to be exposed precisely. Over- or underexposure by more than one stop will ruin the picture in most cases. You can work around that by using ND-filters or by carrying two cameras, one loaded with 100 ISO, the other with 400 ISO film.

eli griggs · Jul 27, 2024

AZD said:
I haven’t tried but probably will at some point. It’s certainly possible. All you really need to know is what the camera’s real shutter speed and aperture are.

The shutter can be estimated by making a phone video while tripping the lever several times. Use slow motion to establish how many hundredths of a second it is open, then calculate. Might take several tries. Not super accurate, but good enough. Average out your various trips and it’ll be fine.

If you have a drill bit set you can, on many box cameras, insert them directly into the aperture until one fits pretty close. Then measure the distance from the aperture to the film plane. Divide the drill diameter into the film plane distance and there’s your f stop.

With this method I measured an old Agfa camera at 1/20 and f16.

Now find light that is good for 1/20 at f16 (or whatever) and iso 100, presumably. Use a meter to see where the good light is.

You’ll be limited of course, but too much light can be cut with an ND.

Too little light can be compensated with the Bulb exposure. You’ll need a tripod, or a table, or a car hood, or a big rock.

I figure it’s about a $25 experiment at local prices, relatively inexpensive for the knowledge. And kind of fun working within those limits. You might end up with something interesting.

I would recommend a precision reamer instead of a drill, or after a drill, for more precise apature "tweaking".

AZD · Jul 27, 2024

I suppose that would be better if the intention is to adjust the aperture. For simply estimating its diameter a drill is fine, acting only as a gauge, and common enough that many people will have a set.

eli griggs · Jul 27, 2024

AZD said:
I suppose that would be better if the intention is to adjust the aperture. For simply estimating its diameter a drill is fine, acting only as a gauge, and common enough that many people will have a set.

Yes, though my limited experience shows me that the several drills I have miked in the past, drills tend to be undersized with an oversized numeral nomenclature engraved into each, thus my suggestion for a reamer.

Romanko · Jul 28, 2024

I used Ektachrome in a simple folder camera with a triplet lens. I really liked the results. The shutter speeds on box cameras might be unknown or inaccurate. I would recommend running a roll of B&W or color negative film through the camera first to test it.

guangong · Jul 28, 2024

MattKing said:
Try a test with something cheaper first, to pin down what the aperture and shutter speed actually is.
Ektachrome in a pinhole camera - for WWPD a few years ago:
View attachment 372577

Very dramatic. With pinhole everything in sharp focus similar to an Old Master painting.

Donald Qualls · Jul 29, 2024

eli griggs said:
several drills I have miked in the past, drills tend to be undersized with an oversized numeral nomenclature engraved into each

For f stop calculation, a drill shank is plenty accurate. A 6 mm drill might have a shank only 5.8 mm diameter -- but that makes almost no difference with a 60+ mm focal length.

eli griggs · Jul 29, 2024

Donald Qualls said:
For f stop calculation, a drill shank is plenty accurate. A 6 mm drill might have a shank only 5.8 mm diameter -- but that makes almost no difference with a 60+ mm focal length.

An interesting compromise, seeing how this is a mathematical formula.

Donald Qualls · Jul 30, 2024

Okay, @eli griggs tell me how many stops difference there is at 60 mm focal length between a 5 mm aperture and a 4.8 mm aperture?

eli griggs · Jul 30, 2024

I'm not versed on the mathematics involved but I know when I take aim with a rifle, the further the shot, the more pronounced an error of any fractional degrees becomes.

When we talk of top grade lenses and the various focal lengths, I don't believe Zeiss or other precision lens builders are using the old adage " Close enough for government work" and/or any "close enough" drills or other apature making mechanism for premium lenses.

In fact, I don't seriously believe they would consider forgoing a clean edge device such as a precision reamer to bring their product to their own specs.

It just doesn't make sense and even if it's only Zeiss that practices this level of precision, does anyone here think a top quality company, an especially long lived lens maker in Germany or Switzerland, or for that matter, Japan, would allow any malaise to creep into their product production, when precision work can be done today?

As to actually making calculations when designing lenses, perhaps you can enlighten us to the 60mm, 150mm, 250mm and 500mm focal lengths ideal and the effect of the same fractional error previously cited in the real World drill bore dimension on each at maximum focal length?

Godspeed and Cheers.

Donald Qualls · Jul 31, 2024

Eli, what I'm saying isn't that lens makers don't set a precise aperture -- it's that a precise aperture (beyond 1/3 stop at best) is overrated. Even slide film can't tell the difference between 1/3 over, dead on, and 1/3 under. So if the drill shank you use to measure is off by 5%, the aperture area is off by (1.05 ^ 2) = 1.1025, ~10%, while 1/3 stop is about 1.26 -- meaning this level of error is so small only microfilm at the very edge of "enough light" has a chance of producing a different tone because of it.

Who has tried slide film in a "better" box camera?

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