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white vinegar as stop bath

Berri

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Florence, Italy
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What diluition shall I use to mix a stop bath fo C41 processing? I have a 6% white vinegar and I use 500mL of solution. Is 2% enough? Or shall I use it straight?
 
I use 5% distilled white vinegar 1+4 with water. That's a 1% solution. 2% would be fine too. I wouldn't use it straight. Follow it with a water rinse before bleaching.
 
Does a vinegar stop bath not pong a little? And it can't be much cheaper than standard bought stop baths ie acetic and citric acid based ones?
 
PE has said that citric acid based stop baths shouldn't be used in a C41 process, only acetic ones.
 
tezzasmall said:
Does a vinegar stop bath not pong a little? And it can't be much cheaper than standard bought stop baths ie acetic and citric acid based ones?
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I think you may be right on cost when you look at the cost of Kodak concentrated stop bath and its dilution level compared to the cost of white vinegar at 1+4. I'd certainly want to be sure that vinegar for food doesn't contain anything that is best left out of a photographic stop bath.

The Kodak stuff is very pungent in its concentrated form but when diluted to its correct strength I cannot say I notice any real smell in the stop slot of my Nova processor. Maybe I am not sensitive to acetic acid. Others more sensitive to acetic acid might be bothered by the smell

pentaxuser
 
it didn't cost much, like 1€ at supermarket for 1L bottle. The ingredients say alcool water and glucose. it is completely transparent and on the bottle it says it could be used both for cooking or cleaning, doesn't say stop bath though!
 
The Kodak concentrated stop is £8.60 on one U.K. retailer for just under half a litre and at 1:63 makes roughly 30 litre. White vinegar cost 1 euro per litre so 30 euros which is about £28( over 3 times the price) for the equivalent amount of stop

The Kodak concentrate is much cheaper and I suspect that in the U.K. white vinegar may be more expensive that the equivalent of 1 euro per litre. A half litre bottle of Kodak stop take up much less room as well

pentaxuser
 
If you use one of the "Archival" fixers from Photographers' Formulary , just a quick rinse in water will do. No stop bath necessary. (for film) I stopped darkroom printing a while ago, but I used Kodak's Indicator Stop bath back then. Cheap and turns purple when it's depleted.

Cheers
 
The OP is seeking advice about colour film processing, not B&W.
 
You can't make pickles with the nasty kodak stuff!
I know it's cheaper but I have this in the house ready available!
 
Berri said:
The ingredients say alcool water and glucose
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One wonders if there is any acetic acid in there.
I looked at the bottle of "Heinz" distilled white vinegar we have in the kitchen. The "ingredients" list doesn't list any - it just says how it is made and describes the acidity.
I'd be concerned about the glucose, but it may be that glucose doesn't matter.
 
I looked on the red wine vinegar bottle and the ingredients say red wine, sulphite

I think they don't write acetic acid because it is not an ingredient they actually use, it is the product of the natural oxidation of alcool
 
White vinegar is the distilled product of fermentation to give regular vinegar from apples, grapes or any fruit. It is white and the undistilled product is brownish. The latter is not usable in photo processing as the contaminants may cause stain. The white vinegar may contain some additives, such as glucose but this causes no problems.

The usual stop bath is 1 - 2% acetic acid and so diluting white vinegar to the proper concentration will work.

PE
 
It's been awhile since I did C-41, but I don't remember using any stop bath, other than water. I do know citric acid (some "orderless" stops) will interfere with bleach-fixing. I only remember developer, blix and stabiliser. In fact, I don't even use stop bath for black and white,...just water. But Tetenal does say you can optionally use a 3% acetic acid solution. I guess they would know.
If you're developing at higher temperatures, a stop bath may be useful. At lower temps, I doubt it. 85-100 deg F?
 
Thanks PE.
FWIW, the Heinz white vinegar on our kitchen shelf states that it is made from corn, so vegetables can work too .
 
Berri said:
You can't make pickles with the nasty kodak stuff!
I know it's cheaper but I have this in the house ready available!
Click to expand...
I have just read your earlier post and need to apologise for my miscalculation. I failed to take into account that your white vinegar can also be diluted at at least 1+3 which is 4 litres of stop per euro so you pay about 8 euros for 32 litres and the Kodak stop is about 32 litres at a dilution of 1:63. So the prices of the two are very close and the white vinegar is slightly cheaper.

In the U.K. however even bigger quantities such as 5L packs of white vinegar seem to be much more expensive than in Italy so there is still a saving with Kodak concentrate.

pentaxuser
 
Any fermentation product, taken to completion yields acetic acid! So yes, fruits, berries, grain and most anything with sugars in them. Do not use Citric Acid stops though with color products. There are, I am told, catastrophic side effects.

Now, why use a stop with color? Well, if you get nonuniform results is the main reason. As far as process temperature, I would not deviate from the 100F recommendation under any circumstances. I have seen what happens if you do.

PE
 

PE, somewhere deep in my memory, I read or someone told me that industrial white vinegar could be made as a by-product of the petroleum refining industry and they somehow by-passed the fermentation step in making it. Have you ever heard of this?.......Regards?
 
I use the cheapest white vinegar I can find. This is just acetic acid and water. Be sure to read the label as food grade can be anywhere from 4 to 6%. Japanese vinegar is usually 4% and contains some sugar, ie glucose, to cut the acidic flavor. Great for making poulet au saute vinaigre.
 
I did read the label as I said in my previus post! It is 6% and contains glucose. it is the cheapest and the only brand I find at my local supermarket! I buy it because I sometimes use it in the kitchen
 
no alcool is made without fermentation, it would cost much more. Yeasts "eat" sugar and produce C02 and alcool (ethanol). Alcool could be oxidayzed even more by the action of some bacteria (acetobacter) to acetaldheyde and then to acetic acid and water. bacteria can produce acetic acid even straight from malt, fruit and other stuff containing sugar. I dubt that such a product could be sold in a supermarked as food product
 
The last time I priced it up, I found glacial acetic acid was the cheapest. I use a 1.5% solution for C41.

Having said that, it stinks to high heaven and will irritate your airways if you're unlucky enough to breathe it in, so vinegar is more practical. For this reason, I always mix acetic acid outdoors.
 
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