White Dots on Film

RattyMouse · Jan 28, 2018

Please have a look at this shot below, focusing on the upper right side, in the sky. There you'll see a series of white dots all over that section of the scene, forming a sort of loop shape. I want to know what caused this to appear on the film that I developed today. The details: Kodak TMAX400, 35mm, HC-110, dil B 5.5min at 20 C, developed in a Paterson tank. These dots are all over nearly every frame on the film. They are never sporadic or random; they always form a line of some kind that meanders across the frame.

Is it possible that old fixer could have caused this problem? Fixer that had some sort of precipitate in it? I dont know if there is precipitate, but my fixer is pretty old. That's the only thing I can think of that would possibly lead to something like this but it does not explain the non random pattern.

RattyMouse · Jan 28, 2018

On second thought, I dont think fixer can cause this problem. These dots are just too organized for the problem to be caused by loose floating material in a fixer.

WilmarcoImaging · Jan 28, 2018

Seems chemical/processing related, maybe in the drying step. What is your wash-rinse-dry workflow?

Lachlan Young · Jan 28, 2018

Drying mark, almost certainly. Try a rewash & final rinse in distilled water with some wetting agent.

RattyMouse · Jan 28, 2018

WilmarcoImaging said:
Seems chemical/processing related, maybe in the drying step. What is your wash-rinse-dry workflow?

I wash the film like this:

1. Add water, invert 10 times, dump.
2. Add water, invert 15 times, dump.
3. Add water, invert 20 times, dump.
4. Add water, invert 20 times, dump.
5. Add water, invert 20 times, dump.
6. remove film, add water, then add approximately 0.5% Photoflo to the water via pipette.
7. Return film reels to the water and then gently spin for 3 seconds.
8. Remove film and then shake hard to remove as much water as possible.
9. Hang to air dry. This film was scanned about after about 4 hours of drying.

RattyMouse · Jan 28, 2018

Lachlan Young said:
Drying mark, almost certainly. Try a rewash & final rinse in distilled water with some wetting agent.

Thank you. I will try this after work tomorrow and see if it improves the film.

Hatchetman · Jan 28, 2018

As noted looks like water spots. They wouldn’t show up in a darkroom print probably. I take a 1 inch square of 100% cotton soft cloth and lightly dampen with distilled water and lightly wipe.

Old-N-Feeble · Jan 28, 2018

Water spot. Soak five minutes in Photoflo solution. While still wet, very gently rub the area with a cotton swab (wet with same PF solution). Dunk one more time and gently squeegee before hanging to dry.

Sirius Glass · Jan 28, 2018

Consider using a surfactant like PhotoFlo.

bvy · Jan 28, 2018

Something similar (?) going on in the upper left also.

M Carter · Jan 28, 2018

Use distilled water for your photoflo rinse - god knows what minerals are in your water. Mine's so full of rust, I have to bleach the bath tub every month.

M Carter · Jan 28, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Consider using a surfactant like PhotoFlo.

See step 6 in his process list, he did use it.

Bill Burk · Jan 29, 2018

I take film off the reels then draw them through a tray of filtered water with Photo Flo. I don’t like unreeling film wet with Photo Flo, feel it may introduce bubbles.

kreeger · Jan 29, 2018

Are you that your stainless reels are really clean before you started the process in the first place?

Since those bubbles are plus density, and cleaning the film doesn't fix it, I bet on something on the reel that came off in development and caused increased development. I've seen it before. Contamination.

railwayman3 · Jan 29, 2018

I'd agree with a possible drying mark......could it have been a hair or a bit of fine fibre sticking to the film, or blown onto the film, while drying ?

phelger · Jan 29, 2018

Could it be something on the scanner glass?
Peter

RattyMouse · Jan 29, 2018

bvy said:
Something similar (?) going on in the upper left also.

Yes, that looks like a more normal drying spot to me. The tiny dots are much stranger in appearance and something I can't recognize.

RattyMouse · Jan 29, 2018

phelger said:
Could it be something on the scanner glass?
Peter

I'm not using a flatbed scanner.

RattyMouse · Jan 29, 2018

Bill Burk said:
I take film off the reels then draw them through a tray of filtered water with Photo Flo. I don’t like unreeling film wet with Photo Flo, feel it may introduce bubbles.

Interesting. Thank you for the suggestion.

RattyMouse · Jan 29, 2018

kreeger said:
Are you that your stainless reels are really clean before you started the process in the first place?

Since those bubbles are plus density, and cleaning the film doesn't fix it, I bet on something on the reel that came off in development and caused increased development. I've seen it before. Contamination.

I'm using plastic reels, but your idea may still point to a source of contamination.

RauschenOderKorn · Jan 29, 2018

Can you show us a pic of the negative, showing the entire frame and maybe some more negatives from the film? You write you have it on almost all the frames. Is it always the same shape?
Did you develop this film alone, or souped together with others? How do the other films look like, if any?
Is it possible that the film was sprayed with some developer / alkali before you filled the chemistry into the tank?

Willyekerslike · Jan 29, 2018

I had a very similar problem many years ago.

I finally sorted it when I stopped shaking the reels with the film in them.

I now and have done for many years done the following.

I half fill a large jug with water and wetting agent and drop the reel with film into the jug after the final rinse. Give it a swish round for a minute or so then split the reel and drop the film into the jug, puling one end from the jug and fixing a clip then pulling the film up from the jug and fixing the clip to the hook and then putting clip on the bottom, or just grab the end of the film while it is on the reel, fix a clip and hang that one on the hook and unroll the film grabbing the end and fixing a clip and letting it hang.

I then decant some of the fluid from the jug into a wash bottle and give the front and back of the film a good squirt at the top on both sides so it runs all the way down taking bubbles or suds, if any, off the film.

The row of dots looks like a large drop of water breaking into smaller drops on the film as it is shaken, well that was my conclusion and whether it is correct or not the method I use above causes me no problems with drying marks.

Regards...W

guangong · Jan 29, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Consider using a surfactant like PhotoFlo.

N
Ditto. A quick dip in Photoflow after wash will eliminate these problems. Also, I usually let film (especially movie film) dry overnight to gallow emulsion to harden completely before handling.

removed account4 · Jan 29, 2018

a lot of people use too much photo flo, and use it wrong .. no clue if this is the case or not but
i was always taught after the film was thoroughly washed fill the film tank up with water almost to the top
put a couple of DROPS of photo flo in the tank
raise and lower the film in the photo flow then bang the tank ( as you would in the beginning of the development cycle to get rid of bubbles )
then gently pour water on top of one edge of the tank to have the foam wash away .. then pull the film out and hang it ...

sometimes misuse of photo flo or other wetting agents, lead to weird stuff being left on the film ...

i'd put the film in water ..
let the emulsion get nice and swollen and see if the white stuff washes off ..
then fill a tray with clean water and a few drops of photo flo and holding the film by a corner .. run it through and hang it someplace dust free

jeffreyg · Jan 29, 2018

If it is in the same location on each frame perhaps it could be something associated contamination before such as when removing the film from the cassette or placing the film on the reels. You can usually see water marks looking at the film on an angle. Besides the suggestions already given have you tried an emulsion cleaner on one of the negatives?

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

White Dots on Film

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency