White and Black sides of dark slide

lamda · Dec 21, 2006

I have not used sheet film in many years. Do I recall correctly that when the white side of the dark slide, with the bumps on the slide handle, faces outward, the film is unexposed?

Also, how do you indicate a holder is empty? Leave the slide partly open?

Monophoto · Dec 21, 2006

You pretty much set your own standard. My rule is white means unexposed film, black means exposed film.

It's rare for me to leave a holder empty, so I don't have a code for that.

By the way - where in Vermont are you?

Ole · Dec 21, 2006

White = ready to expose; Black = "umm - you'd better check this in the darkroom to see if there are any notches which can tell you if it's E6 or BW".

jovo · Dec 21, 2006

I do what you describe, as I think is the usual case for most people. Remember also that you can write lightly with pencil on the white part of the darkslide. If you don't 'press', it's rather easy to erase whatever notes you may make to yourself regarding exposure and/or development. And yes, when my holders are empty, I leave the slide partly pulled out.

Lee L · Dec 21, 2006

Here's a poll of APUG members taken in January:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

91% use white for unexposed film, black for exposed.

Lee

photographs42 · Dec 21, 2006

Everyone I know uses the White = Unexposed/Black = Exposed format. As for empty….. When I load film into them they go into Zip Lock bags, two per bag, where they stay until I take them out for exposure. Like many people, when I make an exposure, I make two, and to add a little insurance I make them from different holders. They go back into the bag until development time.

When I empty them in the darkroom they don’t go back into the bags until they are cleaned and reloaded. So if they are naked on the shelf in the darkroom they are empty.

I only use one film so marking the holder for film type is unnecessary but I do have them numbered on each side so I can track the exposures.

Before I started using the Jobo processor, I developed in trays and it was hard to keep track of which piece of film came from which holder I solved that by filing notches in the inside edge of the flap using Roman Numeral numbering with a straight notch for an I, a vee notch for a V and a half round notch for a X. It worked great but I haven’t needed it with the Jobo because the cylinders are numbered and I know what went into each.

Jerome

Curt · Dec 21, 2006

I don't know what the poll shows but here is what I know and here is what I have seen.

The bumps on the silver or white side lets the darkroom person know which side of the slide is in or out.

White: unexposed film
Black: exposed film

I know this because blind persons were hired to work in darkrooms because they could work in the dark for long periods with out complaints. We had a blind darkroom tech where I worked and he used the notches to tell if the holder was set for unexposed and could tell if the holder needed to be developed. Everyone understood that they were responsible for the correct orientation of the slide. If a double exposure occurred it wasn't the fault of the darkroom tech. The rule had been broken by the user.

Curt

mjs · Dec 22, 2006

Now there's a curious question. I'm in the minority, using white for exposed and black for unexposed. Memory is a tricky thing but I'm pretty sure I read, somewhere, that this is how it was supposed to be done, back when I started large format photography. I wonder if I did read it somewhere, or whether I read it and got it backwards, or what?

Of course, the most likely explanation is the simplest: I'm an idiot.

mjs

jstraw · Dec 22, 2006

mjs said:
Now there's a curious question. I'm in the minority, using white for exposed and black for unexposed. Memory is a tricky thing but I'm pretty sure I read, somewhere, that this is how it was supposed to be done, back when I started large format photography. I wonder if I did read it somewhere, or whether I read it and got it backwards, or what?

Of course, the most likely explanation is the simplest: I'm an idiot.

mjs

That's been my way as well, since black=has-not-been-exposed/white=has-been-exposed makes sense to me and the opposite does not. I think people should do what seems most intuitive to them and therefore, the least likely to lead to confusion.

I am curious about the whole bumps on the white side thing. Though that can mean anything...the only thing it clearly means is that it's the white side.

Vaughn · Dec 22, 2006

There is no "suppose to"...

There is only what is. So says Yoda.

Negatives get darker when exposed -- that is how I remembered that the exposed film gets the black side of the dark slide. ("Virgin film is always dressed in white" is another way).

But in practise it does not matter a bit -- as long as one is consistant. We teach white for unexposed here at the uni just so that the students will know if someone else's holder is exposed or not. What one does is the privacy of one's own darkroom is one's own business!

Vaughn

Lee L · Dec 22, 2006

I've worked in a dozen or more commercial and advertizing studios. Every one of them did white=unexposed black=exposed or empty. And you never open a holder except in the dark. I suspect that it's an industry standard to a great degree, as it would be difficult for a free lance assistant to have to remember which studio did which pattern if they varied randomly, and the costs of inconsistency are high when you hire free lance assistants.

In a "do it all yourself" setting, you obviously get to choose what makes sense to you.

Lee

Wayne R. Scott · Dec 27, 2006

I always thought of it as making toast from white bread. White is bread (unexposed) and black is toast (exposed). But then I am a little different.

Wayne

walter23 · Dec 27, 2006

I use the black = exposed convention too. I read it in a view camera book, and decided to stick with what seemed to be the most common convention just in case I ever ended up shooting with a group and sharing holders or something. If you only work solo (and so far, that applies to me) it obviously isn't important which you prefer.

I do store my empty holders in an "unexposed" configuration, though I guess I risk shooting on empty holders by doing this. My rationale is that I'd rather accidentally open and ruin an unexposed film sheet, if for some reason I have an urge to pull out a dark slide from what I think is an empty holder (e.g. to visually clean out dust before loading in the changing tent). Having an intrinsic restriction against opening a holder marked "exposed" just makes sense to me I guess only opening holders in the dark is an even better method.

Christopher D. Keth · Dec 28, 2006

I just write "Exposed" on the white side of the slide. No confusion possible

jstraw · Dec 28, 2006

I'm sold. I'm switching over. White means unexposed from now on.

Phil · Jan 1, 2007

Bumps on the white side

jstraw said:
<clip>
I am curious about the whole bumps on the white side thing. Though that can mean anything...the only thing it clearly means is that it's the white side.

Here's an historical thought. I have some 4x5 wood glass plate holders that are edge stamped with "ROCHESTER CAMERA Co - POCO CAMERA". The dark slides are attached to wood handles with three of what appear to be brass Escutcheon pins. The rounded heads are on the 'white' natural side, and the pins have been trimmed even on the 'black' painted side. It is very easy to distinguish which side is which by feel.

Anyone else have any old wood holders that are made this way?

mjs · Jan 1, 2007

I'm a lone wolf! Whoooooo!

jstraw said:
I'm sold. I'm switching over. White means unexposed from now on.

Great, thanks: now I'm dangling out here all alone. Just gotta be different.

Well, there's at least one bright spot to being the lone wolf: none of you will want to borrow a film holder from me...

mjs

DanG · Jan 2, 2007

I have been using 4"x5" film holders since 1962. It has always been white (or in some cases, silver) side out = loaded, unexposed. Black side out = exposed. (or empty; check in dark) I seem to remember an interesting thing about the "bumps" on the white side of the slide; bumps = Infrared safe holder. Any one else heard of this?
DanG

jp80874 · Jan 2, 2007

When I started using sheet film I also wondered how to mark holders that were empty. I did not want to leave them open as a welcome to dust and dog hair. I leave them closed, black side out as they were when I unloaded them, in a clear ziplock bag. I put a posted it note inside the bag marked, "to load". Holders that have exposed film are left black side out in a Ziplock with a note "to develop".

John Powers

White and Black sides of dark slide

lamda

Monophoto

Ole

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jovo

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Lee L

photographs42

Curt

mjs

jstraw

Vaughn

Lee L

Wayne R. Scott

walter23

Christopher D. Keth

jstraw

Phil

mjs

DanG

jp80874

White and Black sides of dark slide

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