Which types of film holders do we use the most?

[Prime]

Which type of film holder do you use the most?

 

[William Levitt]

I'm partial to the type that are light tight and dust free. ;-)

Actually I have an assortment of different brands and am not partial to one or the other. I have looked (just looked) into the high precision film holder from Sinar, that guarentee film flatness, but talk about sticker shock!

 

[paul owen]

I swear by Toyo film holders! they are well made and hold the film FLAT!

 

[EUGENE]

The question asks what type of film holder, not what brand of holder, we use. So far, the traditional double holders with darkslides are the favorite types with this group. About twenty years ago, I purchased twelve 4X5 Lisco Regal II holders from Calumet. They gave me excellent service for the almost fifteen years, then, I began to notice some fogging due to light leakage and traced the leakage to the slots where the darkslides enter the holder. It seems that the felt material used in the light traps was beginning to mat down flat and loose it's resiliency. This allowed a small amount of light to enter the holder after the darkslide was pulled, even though I always used the focusing cloth to cover the back of the camera, shielding direct light on the holder. I replaced the Liscos with Toyo holders about five years ago. Although they are more expensive, they are worth the investment.

 

[Robert Kennedy]

I use standard doubles. Fidelity Elites (2) and old Riteways (5). As long as they don't leak I am happy. Of course I also have an old Polaroid 545 too which is a great thing to have.

 

[William Levitt]

You are right Eugene, sorry for the mis-interpretation.

And actually, this was to be more of a Poll than a Post.

 

[jmcd]

EUGENE,

Do the Toyo holders rely on something more durable than felt to prevent light leaks? Thanks.

 

[Thilo Schmid]

I recently switched from traditional 4x5" holders to Fuji QuickChange. QuickChange gives you 8 shots in a compact lightweight magazine. Just reload the magazines with your favorite film type (factory presets are only aviliable in RDP III and Velvia, AFAIK). The QuickChange system will even provide better film flatness, because the darkslide moves underneath the sheet carrier when preparing the magazine for a shot. This gives the single sheet carriers in the magazine addional support and tension. To me, this is the best invention for LF since a long time.

 

[Robert Kennedy]

I've heard of this before. It is being touted as the next Grafmatic. It sounds as if it will be a great boon since you won't have to rely on dodgy equipment that is who-knows-how-old-and-abused.

BTW - how much does the QuickChange system cost?

 

[EUGENE]

LMCD, I don't know what type of material Toyo uses in their light traps. I would speculate that it is a felt-like material similar to what the other manufacturers use. Judging from the fit and finish of the Toyo holders, it probably is a higher quality material. Even the hinge tape at the bottom of these holders seems like a higher quality material. The thing that makes The Toyo holders unique is their use of rivets to hold the entire assembly together. I also understand that they are made to a very high tolerance. They are easy to load. So far, after five years, I have experienced no leakage or other problems with them.

 

[Thilo Schmid]

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Robert Kennedy @ Sep 11 2002, 02:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I've heard of this before. &nbsp;It is being touted as the next Grafmatic. &nbsp;It sounds as if it will be a great boon since you won't have to rely on dodgy equipment that is who-knows-how-old-and-abused. &nbsp;

BTW - how much does the QuickChange system cost?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Robert,

unfortunately, Fuji is not very interested in marketing the QuickChange system worldwide. As far as I know, Fuji distributes it only in the US and Japan. But there are some dealers that import and offer them. These are e.g. Robert White in the UK (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk) and Christoph Greiner (http://www.greiner-photo.de/) in Germany. You'll have to invest ~$300 into the QuickChange holder. This is a one time investment into a solid piece of equipment. It allows you to change the Film Cartridges any time. So you will not need more than one. The Film Cartridges are relative expensive (~$60-$70) and you cannot buy empty ones. But with a little training, you will be able to reload them a hundered times or so.

 

[BobF]

"You'll have to invest ~$300 into the QuickChange holder. This is a one time investment into a solid piece of equipment. It allows you to change the Film Cartridges any time. So you will not need more than one. The Film Cartridges are relative expensive (~$60-$70) and you cannot buy empty ones"

Wow! I have of course been reading about these holders but didn't realize the cost was this high. What, other than the fact that it is new equipment and holds 8 sheets, makes these better than Grafmatics. I have been able to accumulate half a dozen Grafmatics in "mint" condition for $50.00 apiece and really prefer using them to regular holders.

I have never seen the Fuji. You can have more than one cartridge (light tight) and use only one holder? How thick and heavy are the cartridges by themselves and in the holder? Plastic or metal? Fragile construction like the Grafmatic septums?

 

[Thilo Schmid]

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BobF @ Sep 11 2002, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>&quot;Wow! I have of course been reading about these holders but didn't realize the cost was this high. What, other than the fact that it is new equipment and holds 8 sheets, makes these better than Grafmatics. I have been able to accumulate half a dozen Grafmatics in &quot;mint&quot; condition for $50.00 apiece and really prefer using them to regular holders.

I have never seen the Fuji. You can have more than one cartridge (light tight) and use only one holder? How thick and heavy are the cartridges by themselves and in the holder? Plastic or metal? Fragile construction like the Grafmatic septums?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Bob,

I'll have to make a correction. I payed 300 German Marks für the QuickChange Holder, which is around $150. We now have the Euro money and it is easier for us to convert to US-$, but we still mix it up in our minds somtimes.

The QuickChange system is relatively new on the market. So you will most probably not find used ones. If you can find a Fuji Lab that processes QuickChange Cartridges, you may even get used ones for free, beacause I don't believe that they get recycled.

The QuickChange Holder is a solid and well built metal construction. The Film Cartridges are of plastic and their size is
23cm x 11,2cm x 2cm or 9" x 4 3/8" x 13/16"
and their weight is ~230g or ~8oz.
The cartridge is 9" large to ensure proper operation of the built in darkslide.
The cartridges are light tight and have enough label space to record some data for each shot. Each cartridge has it's own counter and locks if it is full.
The Cartridges are not as solid as a conventional film holder, but I have not had any problems yet. There is no need to handle them with extra care. However, it might break if dropped hard. On the other hand, the locking mechanism for the darkslide is much more safe than on a conventional film holder. And you will never again have to search for your darkslides

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Here's a really informative article about the Quickchange holder:

http://www.f32.net/Services/Equipment/Acce...uickchange.html

If I acquire a 4x5" camera, I'll definitely consider it. I like the compact design.

If only someone would come up with a lightweight, compact holder system for the larger formats, where the weight, bulk, and cost of filmholders adds up very quickly. The thin Mido II system was made briefly in 8x10", but those are hard to find now.

 

[BobF]

David - Great site thank you.

It looks like the holder is not only thicker but longer than the Grafmatic? Has anyone who is familiar with loading a Grafmatic also loaded the Fuji? It looks even more difficult and complicated to load, especially in a changing bag.

 

[Thilo Schmid]

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BobF @ Sep 13 2002, 08:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It looks even more difficult and complicated to load, especially in a changing bag.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Bob,

I prefer a different procedure than the one described on the website:

1. reset the counter at the film cartridge to "1" (with a simple ballpen and always turn it clockwise for a longer life)
2. reinsert the cartridge into the QuickChange holder and put it down with the darkslide facing up.
3. pull the darkslide as you would in the camera back
4. reopen the QuickChange holder. Do <u>not</u> remove the Cartridge
5. Remove the whole stack of sheet holders by simply shifting them away (a spring will press them out of the cartridge). Maybe you'll have to push them slightly on one side for better operation.
6. unload the sheets from the sheet holders. The topmost is Nr. 1 (if you need this information for individual processing)
6.5 in a changing bag: store exposed sheets safely and prepare for the new film sheets
7. reload the sheet holders (requires some training)
8. place them onto the springs of the still open Film Cartridge in the still open QuickChange holder.
9. Use the thumbs and the forefingers of both hands to press the sheet holders gently at all four corners into the cartridge
10. Slide with the fingers of one hand along the long edges to the middle of the sheet holder stack while still pressing them into the cartridge
11.close the darkslide with the other hand until it blocks
12. close the QuickChange Holder
13. close the darkslide finally until it locks
14. since the QuickChange holder is now in "yellow mode" (where it shows a yellow flag under the pull of the darkslide - this is the same mode as when you reinsert the darkslide after a shot), you must complete the cycle by pulling the cartridge at the darkslide once more. This operation usually advances the sheet holders inside the cartride. In this case it does nothing but restoring the Quick Change Holder into the default position
15. unfortunately, the counter on the cartdrige is advanced by the last operation and shows a "2" now. Simply advance it with the ballpen until it shows "1" again.

This all might sound complicated, but it is not and it can easily be trained in daylight. The main advantage of this procedure is, that the cartdrige will not disassemble in the Quick Change Holder. It this case, it is much easier to reinsert the sheet holders into the cartridge. The QuickChange Holder itself will also provide a better orientation for your fingers when handling in total darkness. And there is only one piece lying around besides the sheet holders.

 

[mprosenberg]

All,

I have been using the Fuji Quickchange holders, and have used Graphmatics in the past. They can be ordered from Badger Gragphic. I do not know the current prices. I have been using them for almost a year, and have reloaded them numerous times. They work very much like the Graphmatics. They can be completly disassembled and dusted out. The biggest differences is the opening of the cassette, as illustrated on the f32 web site. The combined weight of the cassette and holder are equal to the Graphmatibut each cassette is half the weight! So you can carry more film for less weight. I also think they are more affordable than used Graphmatic holders (I bought my Graphmatic holders 6 yrs ago for $45 each - and I have seen them go today for over $125).

I have bought enough of the cassettes to be able to load enough to last about a week, so that I do not have to load in the field!

If anyone has questions on how to use these you can send me an e-mail.

Regards,

Mike

 

[cxc]

I voted for Readyloads, cuz life is short.

 

[Sherman]

I use regular Fidelity holders most of the time but I often use a Polaroid holder for Readyloads, Quickloads and Polaroids. It is nice to have a "universal" holder that handles all the packet films. I've never had a failure of a Readyload or Quickload with the Polaroid holde.

Sherman
http://www.dunnamphoto.com

 

[Changeling1]

Tiltall 4x5 film holders

Anyone used this brand? They look like the rest with the exception of 3 chrome rivets on each side of the frame which I would presume holds the holder together. I have just about all brands out there ranging in age from 50 years to brand new. I just want them clean and light tight. I can get the new Tilt-All brand cheap. I've heard that all holders come out of the same factory (?)

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've heard that the Tiltall 4x5" holders are not designed for a normal 4x5" camera. I believe they lack the lock rib that keeps the holder in place when you pull the slide and forms the light trap when engaged with the groove on the camera back. Either these things are just a mistake, or they are designed for some other equipment, and are being sold as conventional film holders. They do not come out of the same factory as Lisco and Fidelity holders.

 

[John Kasaian]

8x10: Black wooden Graflex-made for Eastman Kodaks. 2nd place goes to plastic Liscos.

 

[bennoj]

For 4x5 I use QuickLoads in a QuickLoad holder, Polaroid in a 545 holder and other films in Grafmatics. I used to use the 545 for both Polaroids and QuickLoads, but evenutally sprang for the Quickload holder to keep the film flatter and avoid the fact that my images were never square on the film (a minor annoyance when enlarging but one that grew on me over the course of several years). I also have a Grafmatic clone (Kinematic, I think?) that holds 10 sheets but has a rep for being of lower quality. I have not used it yet, but may load it up for a trip early next week.

For 5x7 and 8x10 I use normal 2-sided film holders of various makes. As well I have an 8x10 single sheet Graflex holder with a fingery rubber surface and a glass plate in front of the film supposedly giving superior film flatness. I have not used it yet, nor have I used my 8x10 Polaroid holders (one of these days...).

For 9x12 and 10x15 plate cameras I use plate holders with film inserts (If anyone has 10x15 film inserts they don't want, let me know...)

 

[roteague]

Fuji QuickLoad or Poloroid 545i. I rarely shoot cut film, I much prefer my Velvia in QuickLoads.

 

[Ole]

Let's see...

Over the last 50 exposures (not including rollfilm), I have used "common" Fidelity most, followed by single-sided sheet metal plate holders - both with film and inserts, and plates without the insert, followed again by old Linhof "universal" film-and-plate holders with ejection mechanism, followed by old book-style plate holders. I've used a Polaroid holder a few times too, come to think of it...

No, I don't use Quickloads or similar: Film is expensive enough as it is, and none of the emulsions I like are available in quickload. Besides I use 5x7" and 9x12cm most of the time...