Which Surface

Anonymous · Apr 10, 2007

I am going to move toward digital output sofar as some of my printing is concerned. I have long used glossy fiber paper with traditional process. What paper surface are most using for digital output? Is glossy in vogue or are other surfaces favored?

I noticed that Epson has a gloss optimizer on some of their printers. Is this because glossy surfaces pose some problem?

Thanks for any information that you can share.

colivet · Apr 11, 2007

You have glossy papers that come very close to the look of fiber based silver gelatin. It is claimed that with the right combination of ink and paper brand, you can get densities of 2.5 or thereabouts. In my work I use matte papers that will only achieve 1.7, again with the right combination of inks and paper and love the look. The blacks may not be as deep but they are velvety and give the impression of depth. The paper seems to dissapear (Hahnemuhle Photorag) and a nice sharp image seems to manifest in it.
With glossy papers I always feel the image is in the emulsion, not on the very top of the paper. It gives a different feeling.
You will have to get your selection to a few boxes of what you think you'll like and test them all. No way around it.

Anonymous · Apr 11, 2007

Thanks Christian The dmax sounds very substantial.

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 11, 2007

I'm not an inkjet printer myself, but at PMA I saw some samples of the new Ilford/Harman (as opposed to the Ilford inkjet papers marketed by the branch of the company that sells Ilfochrome) baryta paper--same baryta base as used for MGIV, subbed for inkjet. I'm not sure if this is out yet, but it looked pretty good for inkjet, and they were still tweaking it. If you wanted a surface that looked like traditional B&W fiber base paper, this would probably be it.

Peter Langham · Apr 11, 2007

If you are looking for somthing that looks like a traditional air dried glossy fiber base paper, try Innova Ultrasmooth glossy. New stuff. They have the surface very close. Dmax of about 2.45 on my 3800.

Bob Carnie · Apr 11, 2007

I would use a glossy material in the initial stages of digital printing.
Reason being that you will see artifacts more clearly with the gloss and it will help you immensly in the beginning stages improve your processing of files.
I feel the problem with matt and heavy rag is that the ink absorbs into the paper and will smooth out potential problem areas that you may not notice.
With that said I love the look of matt ink on rag but a one of the difficulties I have encountered with the New Harmon Lambda Gloss fibre paper is a lunchbag let down clients sometimes get when they move to a higher gloss and more detailed print that is afforded via the lambda to silver gelatin gloss than that detail they are getting from rag inkjet prints.
All the PS rezing up in the world of smaller input devices may not be noticable with a rag ink print or more common the dreaded highlight posterization, but is totally evident with the gloss lambda paper.

So my vote is for the gloss paper and ink , to get a good handle on your files and once you are very happy with your workflow introduce the matt on rag paper for the look you may be interested.

Doyle Thomas · Apr 13, 2007

Printing to a mat finish and then laminating with glossy material will provide the best of both and protect the print.

MVNelson · Apr 13, 2007

IMHO you will be surprized at how very nice the rag and watercolor papers present your images. It will almost be like what happens with an image printed on fb gloss and then printed pt/pd. The very glossy and ultragloss inkjet papers to me make images look all the world like they were printed on rc papers (not necessarily a bad thing) . Recently I showed an image printed on Strathmore Bristol vellum at work that previously shown on fb.. I was startled by the responce..the 1st was recieved with good reviews, the Canon iPf5000 inkjet on strathmore was recieved with raves!! At first it hurt my feelings ... My wife has the framed "glicee" on the wall... its a new world ..your gonna push a lot of different papers and surfaces through your printer and don't be surprized when your viewers appreciate them as well as your traditional FB prints...

Miles

Miles

Anonymous · Apr 14, 2007

Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Ted Harris · Apr 15, 2007

Donald,

One o the nice things is that most of the major paper suppliers offer sample kits containing 1 or 2 sheets of all their offerings. Buy a bunch and play around.

BTW, Bob makes some excellent points regarding the properties of glossy paper. As a rule I proof all my prints using a gloss or semi gloss paper and, after evaluating the proof and making corrections make my final print, usually on matte. My two most used papers are probably Hanamhule Photo Rag and Red River Aurora Natural, both matte surfaces, the Hanahmule somewaht textured.

Anonymous · Apr 16, 2007

Ted, Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience.

blansky · Apr 17, 2007

Donald I've been experimenting with Crane Silver Rag. I also have the Hahnemuhle Fine Art. The problem is the Fine Art has optical brighteners which I'm not too sure about.

The Crane Silver Rag looks a lot like Fiber Glossy but it does have a sort of "pebbling" which can cause glare.

So at this point I'm still doing the paper chase but am leaning towards the Silver Rag.

Michael

Anonymous · Apr 18, 2007

Thanks Michael

Ted Harris · Apr 18, 2007

Interesting experiment today. I am testing out both the Canon iPF 5000 and the HP B9180 printers. I printed a black and white image on both printers using both satin/pearl, semi gloss and matte surface papers. On each paper I printed both using only black/gray inks to a neutral black and using all the inks to a neutral black. Today, I spread out all the prints for several others to view .... one a versitle alt. process photographer who is also one of the country's leading photogravure plate and printmakers, another a platinum printer who shoots predominately 8x10 and 11x14 and is very well known, third and fourth viewers were an artist and a "civilian." With one exception all preferred the matte print done with all black/gray inks on the heaviest, highest quality paper. The civilian also chose an all black/gray ink print but one on a satin surface; shce commented that she liked it better because it had more detail. I'm not going to try an ddraw any conclusions beyond the obvious preference for the black only inks ... keep in mind that the inks from both of these printers is far more neutral than those from an Epson, unfortunately I don't have an Epson printer any more to run comparisons.

Which Surface

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