Which Minox model?

[Donald Qualls]

I don't think "Lo-Fi" really describes Minox, based on the results I've seen people post -- but this seems to be where all the subminiature content lands here.

I'm looking to buy a Minox sometime this year (tax refund coming), along with some cassettes and pre-stripped film to start. Question is, which Minox model?

I saw a video on My Own Devices channel on YouTube the other night that, along with a detailed history of Walter Zapp and his creation of the Minox camera, give a quick overview of the various Minox models from Riga to the last gasp (not including the Sharan novelty cameras that used Minox film).

As far as I can recall (he glossed over these pretty quickly), I think a III or IIIs, B (ideally with working meter, though that's apparently a rarity after seventy years), or C (the one that uses a button cell instead of the 5.6V mercury battery) are the ones I want. Fully manual control (ideally with built in light meter), ND filter at least, 8" minimum focus are the key features (and preferably the Complan rather than the film-contacting lens -- Penta-something? -- in the early B units)?

Wouldn't object to getting one old enough to use 50-exposure cassettes, though I doubt I'd load and shoot those often even if I can find the shells.

What am I missing?

 

[4season]

I've got someone's hand-drawn service notes for Minox A / IIIs and it looks pretty simple to service, so that's what I chose. I'd have preferred the "A" for it's metric distance scale, but for the price I paid for my IIIs, I'm not complaining.

As a kid, I got to use my dad's "C" and it worked well until the battery leaked, and it's only too easy to forget to remove the battery.

 

[Donald Qualls]

it's only too easy to forget to remove the battery.

That's a concern, alright -- especially since I tend to leave cameras loaded and ready for months or longer (my Petri 7s still has film in it from 2005 or so) and I'm not sure one can change the battery in a C when loaded.

I like selenium meters, and have several cameras and light meters with good ones, but apparently the ones in the B models mostly haven't fared all that well.

 

[armadsen]

I have both a C and a TLX. They're both great, but I like the TLX better for a few reasons:

- Newer so (maybe?) will last longer
- Shutter speed goes up to 1/2000 (C only goes to 1/1000)
- About a centimeter shorter in length than the C
- I find it easier to turn the dials
- Has a standard tripod socket
- Looks a little more refined to me.

The only things I find better about the C:
- Goes down to 1/15s (TLX only goes to 1/30)
- Minox name and "Made in Germany" are engraved, while they're printed, and rubbing off a little on my TLX.
- Focus scale is in feet, rather than the meter scale on the TLX. I assume this varies by where the camera was exported. I bought my TLX in Japan, and my C in the US. That said, I almost always shoot with the focus set on the red dot, which means 2m/6ft - ∞ is in focus.

I almost always shoot both in auto mode, but both do have manual shutter speed dials.

Anyway, if price isn't a big deal, and you're only going to get one, I'd recommend the LX, TLX, or CLX (same cameras with different finishes).

 

[xya]

I own a IIIs (and its separate selenium meter), 3 B's and 3 C's, all bought for very little money. I cannot confirm that the selenium meters are a problem, all 4 are working fine. So personally I would recommend a B as it is smaller. But if you find a C for cheap, I also would recommend it, it's easier to shoot and I have not had a single battery leaking since mercury batteries are out of trade...

 

[xkaes]

Don't forget that there are LOTS of cameras that use the Minox cassette. I use a Minox IIIs for most situations. I had a Minox MX, but sold it in favor of an Acmel MD -- it's the same body, but has automatic shutter speed control (1/500-2s) and a wide range of film speed. The Minox MX & Acmel MD were also sold under other labels. There are Fuji, Yashica, and many other "Minox" cameras to choose from.

http://www.subclub.org/shop/minlike.htm

 

[ic-racer]

I'm no fan of carrying a separate meter. Minox BL seems like it might be the best in terms of functionality and small size, but, out of economy, I got the less expensive LX. In 2002 it was one of the least expensive black Minox one could buy on the used market. I have been happy with it. The auto exposure of the LX does a pretty good job. So I'm not sure the extra control offered by the BL 'match the needle' meter is needed.

A working Black BL seems to always come at a premium price. I always wanted a black AX also, but, even searching since 2001, I have yet to find one less than $2000.

As mentioned above, you might want to check out Yashica cameras that take Minox film. They can be found quite cheap and may be easier to repair than Minox. The black Atoron Electro (center), though bigger than the LX, does a fine job.

Black Minox BL, rare and expensive:

Black Minox AX, even rarer and more expensive:

http://www.subclub.org/subjpegs/minoxax.jpg

 

[xkaes]

Like with any film format, it's important to choose the features that are most important for the way you shoot. The various Minox-type cameras vary considerably -- type of focus (fixed or not), meter (built-in/type/none), body size, manual/auto exposure, fixed/variable f-stop, flash (built-in, clip-on, separate,none), film speeds, shutter speeds, filters (built-in, clip-on, none), tripod connection, accessories, etc............

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

I purchased my sole Minox camera, a B model, on a lark after I found a functioning copy at a local consignment store. The meter is toast but doesn't pose any real issues in my use cases. My preference would be the IIIs or AX for their sheer compactness or a version with a CdS meter if that matters to you. The selenium meters in my various German cameras seem to have fared better than their Japanese counterparts of the same era but are still more prone to failure than any given CdS meter in my experience.

There are plenty of accessories to be had as well but the one I'd consider is the viewing magnifier. Direct viewing of the film is certainly the best way to experience the results from the camera.

As I'm sure you're aware Blue Moon Camera offers pre-loaded, genuine Minox cassettes. They're worth the purchase for the cassette alone; if you thought 3D printing 16mm cassettes was tough then attempting a Minox cassette print is truly harrowing.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The various Minox-type cameras vary considerably -- type of focus (fixed or not), meter (built-in/type/none), body size, manual/auto exposure, fixed/variable f-stop, flash (built-in, clip-on, separate,none), film speeds, shutter speeds, filters (built-in, clip-on, none), tripod connection, accessories, etc............

Must have manual exposure and focus; a standard 1/4-20 tripod socket would be preferred, but the 1/2 shutter is also good (and apparently 1/15 was the slowest you could get by the time standard tripod sockets were installed); I don't see a lot of need to go faster than 1/1000 (especially with an ND filter on tap). Aperture control would be nice, but with the ND filter, the fixed f/3.5 Complan seems to do a remarkably good job. Good likelihood I'd only shoot TMY or Gold 200 since grain is more important than cost for this format (and I can get six strips long enough for 50 exposures from 120 and still discard the edge markings, so the film is cheap even at $20/roll for the 120). Focus down to 8" is also very nice (I've shot at 18 inches with my Kiev 30 and 303, and I can make a substitute chain if I have to).

A meter is honestly a bonus rather than a necessity; I've been shooting Sunny 16 rules for decades, about 99% successfully, and since I always carry my smart phone, the light meter app on the phone does a fine job too and adds nothing to my kit. I almost never use flash (and AG-1 bulbs have been out of production for a long time, while a strobe would be bigger than the camera).

The more I think about it, the more a III, IIIs, or B/BL (working meter or not) looks like the ticket, especially given I'd like to have the option to shoot 50 exposure if I can find cassettes in good condition. Does the BL work with alkaline or silver oxide batteries, or will I have to find a source of (nearly obsolete because too big and the trend to rechargeable) zinc-air 375 cells?

Is there a good source of new cassettes? I understand Blue Moon is selling loaded film, but there are problems with 3D printed cassettes in Minolta or Yashica 16, I can only think they'd be multiplied in 8x11.

 

[xkaes]

Black Minox AX, even rarer and more expensive, though looks like xkaes has one, this image is from his site:

FYI, that's not from my website --the SUBCLUB -- but much of what's on THAT website has been stolen from MY website, which makes it easy to confuse the two.

 

[xkaes]

Sounds like the Minox III would be the best choice for you since you don't need flash synch -- and these are the least in demand and smallest. And you can always add another model later -- like I did, when you run across a great deal (they happen all the time). There's a nice accessory for the III/IIIs -- it's a tripod socket and cable release connection combo (easy to find). I also like the TINY spy-finder which allows you to take pictures at a 90° angle -- it stays on the camera when you fold the camera up.

The 3D printed cassettes (I think these are easy to find) are not really a problem as long as you load and unload the camera in dim light.

 

[Bill Burk]

I wore out my Minox C when you could still get film and batteries for it.

It’s a really good camera. One feature it has that others don’t: You can open and close it without necessarily advancing.


I would get the A for smaller size and mechanical shutter.

 

[ic-racer]

FYI, that's not from my website --the SUBCLUB -- but much of what's on THAT website has been stolen from MY website, which makes it easy to confuse the two.

I'm really sorry about that, though I might not be the only one a little confused.

I have replaced the AX image with a link to your site!

 

[FriedLouisStudio]

I don't shoot Minox subminis now, but I did 1967-1970 and 1995-2018. I have both a B and IIIs.

I had my first Minox B in the 60s... and quickly found the selenium meter was ONLY useful in bright conditions. Fantastic technology, but that meter wasn't good for interiors and low light situations. I'd end up guestimating.

When I got back into shooting Minox in the 90s, I chose a IIIs because it's even smaller and simpler. Estimating exposure with the Minox is easy because of its fixed f/3.5 aperture: the shutter speed is the only variable. I standardized on 100-speed films and did very well without a light meter. (When in doubt, I'd bracket the shutter speeds: I was loading my own cassettes and film was only costing me a dollar a roll!) For me, the tiny IIIs is just flat-out cooler than the B.

But this is me - I really like the challenge of shooting totally manual cameras. These days, I largely shoot with a Pen F and Nikkormat (with a flaky TTL meter) and rarely carry a hand meter. Just this week, I bought myself a sample of the most manual Olympus Pen viewfinder camera, the Pen S, on eBay and am looking forward to checking it out. For me, smaller/more manual is always more interesting. But that's me.

Donald, since you say that you're already estimating exposure 99% of the time with other cameras, you'd be an ace with the IIIs. OTOH, if you really want one of the later automatic models, go for it. They're all awesome!

And YEAH, the Minox really does NOT belong in "Lo-Fi cameras", it's a masterpiece of sophisticated twentieth century camera design!



"Product shot" I did for a web article I wrote about different Minox models back in 1998 (whose text has been ripped offf repeatedly since!) That's my dad holding my IIIs, shot with our old flourescent studio lighting in 1998. (100/2.8 Zuiko on my OM-G/OM20, Tri-X/D-76, low-res scan of a 5x7 print... from back in those just-small-JPGs-for-modems days.)

 

[guangong]

Over the years I have accumulated several examples of Minox. For me, size matters. I prefer the III because it is the smallest. The meter in my B is kaput. I used C before LX was available. I prefer the LX because more compact than C, as well as for features already mentioned by another contributor above.
The Minoxes from my accumulation (not collection) I use most frequently are III, BL, and LX. I would also recommend acquiring a Minox developing tank. The days when you could send Minox film out for processing are long gone. While developing reels are available, they are trickier to handle.
Order a few rolls of film from Blue Moon before attempting to load cassettes yourself. You will then have empty cassettes to reload. And also a better idea how you screwed up. Keep in mind that aperture is always 3.5, so films that are too fast can be difficult to tame, but with a little practice camera can be held very steady for very slow shutter speeds. Minox recommended ASA 25-50. I use ASA 100 because much of my shooting is indoors.

 

[FriedLouisStudio]

I agree that the Minox is great in low light, it's very easy to handhold at slow speeds with some experience. I used to shoot mine at 1/20, 1/10, 1/5 regularly with good results. I found 100-speed film was right at the sweet spot for use in the most common exposure situations, and most of the emulsions were reasonably fine-grained.

(The best b/w ones for me were Tmax-100 and Afgapan APX 100; I was less satisfied with results from Plus-X, FP4 Plus, and Delta 100. Color - the 100-speed grain champs at the time were Fuji Reala and Kodak Supra 100/High Definition 100. But I only shot color for about five years before Minox Processing Labs went out of biz.)

I also agree that the Minox developing tank is a brilliant piece of gear. I developed nearly a hundred rolls of b/w in mine in each of my two periods of shooting Minox cameras.

And yeah, start off with some factory loads, don't rush to load your own cassettes. Loading cassettes, like everything about the Minox, requires CAREFUL handling and real dedication to repetitive procedural precision. I have a Don Krehbiel-design flatbed slitter, and I loaded about three-quarters of those hundred rolls in the 90s-2010s. It nearly always worked well for me, but it's not a task to take on lightly.

 

[DWThomas]

I own a Minox B purchased new circa 1963 or so, which is attributed to an accident of excess disposable income at the time. I even acquired a daylight tank and some accessories such as a tripod adapter, right angle finder, and the binocular attachment. All in all, it didn't meet my expectations and my use of it dropped off for several decades. Once Blue Moon made film available in this millennium, I put a roll of Delta 100 through it to see what would happen. But I fear it still disappoints me enough to avoid spending much time -- and $$$$ -- on it.

The whole concept is cool, but especially as an octogenarian, they are awfully fiddly to work with! Heck, these days 35mm seems pretty fiddly!

For the two cents it's worth, the meter in my B still appears to work.

 

[xkaes]

Selenium meters will last for a LONG time -- especially if kept in the dark (when not in use). The biggest problem is the poor response to low light levels, as mentioned.

 

[armadsen]

The days when you could send Minox film out for processing are long gone.

Blue Moon develops, optically prints, and scans Minox film. They’ve always done a great job with mine. It’s not cheap, though.

 

[guangong]

Blue Moon develops, optically prints, and scans Minox film. They’ve always done a great job with mine. It’s not cheap, though.

I only had Blue Moon do color. Forgot about BW. Thanks for reminder. Processing BW is rather easy.

 

[FriedLouisStudio]

Selenium meters will last for a LONG time -- especially if kept in the dark (when not in use). The biggest problem is the poor response to low light levels, as mentioned.

Absolutely! Keeping the selenium out of the light is key to its survival.

I just checked my vintage-1963 Minox B's meter, and it's working well - this camera has always resided in a nylon knife case since I got it 20+ years ago.

A couple of years ago, I found a Petri 7s rangefinder at a flea market whose lenscap was on - and probably had been since the 60s! Its selenium meter works perfectly.

And my carry-around meter is a little GE PR-1 selenium meter circa 1950 that had been in its case and cabinets/drawers/gadget bags for decades (I don't recall ever seeing it used by my folks, only later Westons and Luna-Pros)... and it works great.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I really like the challenge of shooting totally manual cameras.

Yep, that's me, too. The most automation I have on cameras I use regularly is an internal meter of the match-needle family. Even my Olympus Pen EES-2 makes me with I had manual control of exposure with that excellent little lens.

Order a few rolls of film from Blue Moon before attempting to load cassettes yourself. You will then have empty cassettes to reload. And also a better idea how you screwed up.

I've loaded Minolta/Kiev 16 mm cassettes many times -- easy peasy if you have good darkroom sense, and the photos I've seen of disassembled Minox cassettes suggest they're just the same only a little smaller. Key is to roll the film tightly enough to go in the supply chamber without extra handling, get it in there and threaded out, and close that up -- the rest you can do in room light.

 

[xkaes]

Yep, that's me, too. The most automation I have on cameras I use regularly is an internal meter of the match-needle family. Even my Olympus Pen EES-2 makes me with I had manual control of exposure with that excellent little lens.

Sounds like you'd like the Ricoh Caddy. While it has a meter (like the many Ricoh Auto-Half cameras), and the same lens, it allows you to set the shutter speed and the f-stop, and the lens focuses. There are not many half-frame cameras like that.

http://www.subclub.org/shop/ricoh.htm

 

[Donald Qualls]

A couple of years ago, I found a Petri 7s rangefinder at a flea market whose lenscap was on - and probably had been since the 60s! Its selenium meter works perfectly.

I've got one that had a good meter last time I used it. Mine lives inside the zipped case, so same light protection as a lens cap. I've also got filter-ring wide angle and tele add-ons for it.

I think the failure of selenium meters is overreported -- but I completely agree, they aren't much good in low light (especially the small cells usually found in small cameras).