Which medium to high speed bulk film (and developer to go along with it) should I get?

Minolta93 · Jun 7, 2022

Hi everyone. I'm thinking of starting to bulk roll, mainly to shoot more film at a lower price. I can't decide which film I ought to buy for my purposes. I'm looking for something that's got somewhat fine grain, can be pushed with acceptable results, and is inexpensive. Obviously I know I can't have everything so there's a balance to be found.

Background information: I've mostly shot Foma/Arista 400. I use Rodinal because it's cheap and I don't have to worry about storage. As some of you may know, and as I've found out, this is a very grainy combo. And in my experience, rating the film at 200 works better than box speed. I have a couple rolls of Kentmere 400 on hand which I have yet to try, so I guess I should see how those turn out before deciding on a bulk film to buy. Maybe Kentmere would do the job. But I'd like some input anyway.

Is the Ultrafine Extreme 400 film any good? It's cheap and if I can push it to maybe 1600 with OK results that would be great. I mainly want something less grainy than Foma with a bit better speed, something that I can push if needed and generally be a versatile film for me as it would be my first foray into bulk loading. Any advice will be appreciated.

Agulliver · Jun 7, 2022

I've pushed Kentmere 400, HP5+ and Fomapan 400 to 1600 in 35mm. HP5+ is the winner, but the Kentmere is perfectly adequate. I find Fomapan 400 pushed two stops technically works, but becomes grainy (even in Microphen or ID-11) and the contrast is too high for my liking. It will depend to some extent on what you're photographing at such high ISO. The Kentmere is a good product and only a little less good when pushed compared to HP5+

I haven't tried Ultrafine Extreme. Might pick some up when I am stateside next, hopefully October.

guangong · Jun 7, 2022

Before jumping in whole hog, I would first experiment a little with a variety of films. Any recommendations offered would only reflect individual preferences, which may not be to your taste. My favorites may not be your favorites. But the search is part of the enjoyment of photography.

Cholentpot · Jun 7, 2022

I've been happy over a good while with UFX400 and HC110. Recently I got a whole bunch of Orwo N-74 which has also shown to be pretty good stuff. Not sure about how well it pushes though. The UFX400 pushes well to 1600 I've found.

Donald Qualls · Jun 7, 2022

I've used Fomapan/.EDU Ultra, both 100 and 400, for years, metered at box speed, and developed a lot of it in Parodinal with very satisfactory results -- contrary to many reports about lower than rated speed on the 400. I believe it's at least partly because I used high dilution (1:50) and agitated only every 3rd minute, with extended development to restore normal contrast. Further, I don't recall it being excessively grainy -- certainly no worse than '90s vintage Tri-X (probably the most comparable film in terms of technology), even with this development.

There's certainly no cheaper combination for one-shot (especially if you can buy acetaminophen at a discount and mix your own -- just three ingredients!), but if you don't like that grain, another alternative might be replenished XTOL (EcoPro, XT-3) with the same films. This is stock strength at 100 g/l of sodium sulfite, so will give the softest possible grain, but you can still reduce agitation a little (replenished developer is probably more prone to bromide drag, but I haven't tried this so can't say for certain if it's a problem).

busrider · Jun 7, 2022

A bunch of foma pan and a a bunch of instant coffee, ID11 on the side

M-88 · Jun 7, 2022

Here's what I did back qhen I had the same question: I bought several different films (film was cheaper back then), tried them at box speed, pulled, pushed and decided based on that. Hardly anything beats HP5+ when it comes to performance at EI1600. Heck, even Delta 3200 can look worse at EI1600 if processed poorly. And HP5+ is still somewhat affordable. Kentmere 400 comes close too, but personally prefer to pay a bit more for HP5+.

In medium speed category I use Kentmere 100. It has better grain and better tonality compared to Foma/Arista Edu Ultra.

All in all, paying 20 extra dollars to get a more predictable and forgiving film seems like a good idea to me.

I also wish FP4+ bulk rolls were still affordable for me.

P.S. All that I've said, is true for D-76/ID-11 developer, since that's what I use.

removedacct1 · Jun 7, 2022

If superior is more the goal than cheapest, then I recommend Delta 400 and Pyrocat HD as an ideal combo.

NB23 · Jun 7, 2022

HP5 is unbeatable, its the most elastic film out there.

But for your needs, I’d go kentmere 400 without problems.

destroya · Jun 7, 2022

rodinal will not help you with fine grain. you can mix from scratch many finer grain developers that will be cheaper and you mix up the amount you need so no worries about it going bad. I mix up pyro-M. its cheap. lasts long and gives finer grain that is just as sharp to my eyes as rodinal.

I prefer the kentmere/ultrafine 400 over foma 400. smaller grain and a true 400 speed for me. I prefer foma 200 but its for me its really a 100 speed film. while its a lot more, tmax 400 is the top of the bunch in my mind for 400 speed films with delta 400 and tri-x right behind then Hp5, which I shoot in 4x5. all are true 400 speed films as well. I just never got along with foma 400 but its me as others like it.

i have some ultrafine 400 I dont shoot so if you want a roll or 2 to try let me know

john

grain elevator · Jun 7, 2022

I'm in the same place. Trying out Foma 400, not super keen on Kentmere but should give it another try, not enough in love with hp5+ to pay what it costs now either. Need to try pushing Foma 200 or even 100, maybe find a way to try N75. oh and try Ilford pan 400, not available in bulk but reasonably cheap prerolled. I do adore Delta 400 but it's expensive and there's a little bit of a risk of messing up bulk loading, so might just continue to buy rolls of that and find something cheap in bulk. If I were rich I'd just buy a freezer full of TMY-2 and Delta 3200 for when I want grain.

Moose22 · Jun 7, 2022

grain elevator said:
not enough in love with hp5+ to pay what it costs now either. N

I've got a 100' roll of HP5 in the freezer and am about halfway through another one. I paid $80 for first and $85ish for the other, I dev in xtol, and it comes out roughly $5 or $5.15 a roll including developing.

But those are last year's prices. BH is showing single rolls at over $8.

Anyway, I like it at 800, it suits me in one environment I like to shoot, and it's cheaper than tri-x (which I'm REALLY learning to appreciate after buying a friend's short-dated stash and shooting half a dozen rolls) so I'll continue to use it. But it's not nearly good enough that I will forgo all others regardless of price.

I actually snagged some Kentmere to try a couple of days ago. $4.79 a roll, so same price range as bulk rolling HP5.

Minolta93 · Jun 8, 2022

Agulliver said:
I've pushed Kentmere 400, HP5+ and Fomapan 400 to 1600 in 35mm. HP5+ is the winner, but the Kentmere is perfectly adequate. I find Fomapan 400 pushed two stops technically works, but becomes grainy (even in Microphen or ID-11) and the contrast is too high for my liking. It will depend to some extent on what you're photographing at such high ISO. The Kentmere is a good product and only a little less good when pushed compared to HP5+

I haven't tried Ultrafine Extreme. Might pick some up when I am stateside next, hopefully October.

Kentmere 400 sounds promising. When I shoot a few rolls of it that I have on hand I should have an even better idea of how it performs, although I'll be using Rodinal.

Minolta93 · Jun 8, 2022

Cholentpot said:
I've been happy over a good while with UFX400 and HC110. Recently I got a whole bunch of Orwo N-74 which has also shown to be pretty good stuff. Not sure about how well it pushes though. The UFX400 pushes well to 1600 I've found.

How's the grain on the Ultrafine stuff? I don't hate grain but I definitely do not like the grain on Foma 400. If Ultrafine Extreme is adequately fine grained it would be a great inexpensive choice for me.

Paul Howell · Jun 8, 2022

Ultrafine 400 has been out of stock for well over a year. I have a 100 foot roll of PhotoWearhouse Finess 400. No idea who makes it, I think it might be a movie film, the few rolls I loaded and shot are fine for my walk around film. Have not pushed it, next time I'm at the local zoo will push a roll to 800.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 8, 2022

Good suggestions so far; Kentmere 100/400 are both excellent for the price and are very flexible in processing. Characteristic results can be achieved based on choice of developer & agitation.

I suspect ORWOs UN54/N75 are similarly superlative, but availability in NA seems limited. Bulk Double-X is another interesting possibility.

Above that price point you're looking primarily at Ilford & Kodak's professional film lines for suitable bulk options and a 2-3x increase in cost per frame.

Sirius Glass · Jun 8, 2022

For any chosen film I recommend XTOL or replenished XTOL. A very forgiving developer with fine grain and great tonality.

Paul Howell · Jun 8, 2022

Finesse is $61.99 a 100 foot roll, same price as Arista which is rebranded Foma, I think I paid $50 for my roll 3 or 4 months ago. Developing times seem to be similar.

Cholentpot · Jun 8, 2022

Minolta93 said:
How's the grain on the Ultrafine stuff? I don't hate grain but I definitely do not like the grain on Foma 400. If Ultrafine Extreme is adequately fine grained it would be a great inexpensive choice for me.

It's pretty good. The film itself is a little low contrast but that means nothing these days, just boost on the scan for me.

gone · Jun 8, 2022

Try Arista Liquid film developer (F76) plus for your Foma 400 and kiss that grain goodby. I shoot that film at 200 and develop it at 1:8 for 7.40 minutes. Very smooth, grain is not an issue at all, and it has beautiful tonality. I get a lot of film developed from just one bottle. These 2 shots look very different due to the light, and I nailed the exposure on the plant but not the dog. Foma 400 is a little sensitive to 'correct" exposures.

Paul Howell · Jun 8, 2022

I agree with MOMUS, Clayton F76+ works really well with Ultrafine 400, Kentmere, Foma, and Fineness 100 and 400.

cmacd123 · Jun 10, 2022

loks like the "extreme" is out of stock.
Iof what you can buy today, the foma/ultra, or the kentmere are both good. the Foma/Ultra did not have edge printing last time I bought some in Bulk, so that might sway your choice.

Bill Burk · Jun 10, 2022

I’ve been experimenting with Double-X (Kodak 5222) and D-76 1:1
I don’t think you have to use the D-96 or DF-96 which are optimized for it. I think the optimization was for rapid processing.

In a bulk roll you don’t get frame numbers, that kind of annoys me.

But I like the look. It takes a little getting used to, so a bulk roll of it would help in that respect.

131802 · Jun 10, 2022

It's easy to overestimate the cost advantages of bulk roll film. Savings are modest, at best. One faulty cassette (the end cap pops off, for example) and there go the savings on that bulk roll. I roll my own HP5 and FP4 with good results in D76. I generally aim for 30 frames per cassette, which is the main reason for me to continue bulk rolling.

Paul Howell · Jun 10, 2022

I roll short rolls, as few as 8 or 12 when I'm shooting zone or know that I will not shoot 24 or 36 on a given day.

Which medium to high speed bulk film (and developer to go along with it) should I get?

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