Which formula with Phenidone to produce ultra low contrast film and print

silvercloud2323 · Dec 18, 2022

Hi,

Which formula with Phenidone do you use to produce ultra low contrast film and print?
So, what are the other chemicals used.

TomR55 · Dec 18, 2022

POTA has traditionally been used as a phenidone-based low-contrast developer. If I recall correctly, it contains two components: Start with approximately 750 mL distilled water (at 52 C or 125 degrees F) add 30g of Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) and finish by adding 1.5 g of Phenidone, and water to make 1000 mL. I used this developer rarely ... but I am pretty sure that it was used undiluted (no replenishment).

I am more than sure that more knowledgeable members of this forum can amplify and/or correct.

Rudeofus · Dec 18, 2022

POTA certainly yields very low contrast, but it does this by severely underdeveloping film, which means you lose many stops of speed. Some Michael posted a novel approach to this topic, and provided us with formulas for ultra low contrast developers, which do not lose speed.

relistan · Dec 18, 2022

Rudeofus said:
POTA certainly yields very low contrast, but it does this by severely underdeveloping film, which means you lose many stops of speed. Some Michael posted a novel approach to this topic, and provided us with formulas for ultra low contrast developers, which do not lose speed.

That’s a very interesting thread, thanks for digging that up. That was Michael R, who apparently deleted his account.

silvercloud2323 · Dec 18, 2022

relistan said:
That’s a very interesting thread, thanks for digging that up. That was Michael R, who apparently deleted his account.

TomR55 said:
POTA has traditionally been used as a phenidone-based low-contrast developer. If I recall correctly, it contains two components: Start with approximately 750 mL distilled water (at 52 C or 125 degrees F) add 30g of Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) and finish by adding 1.5 g of Phenidone, and water to make 1000 mL. I used this developer rarely ... but I am pretty sure that it was used undiluted (no replenishment).

I am more than sure that more knowledgeable members of this forum can amplify and/or correct.

I know POTA developer but not sure where to buy it. It seems hard to find.
I see they sell it at B&H photo and at Adorama.

TomR55 · Dec 18, 2022

You might try is Clayton's F76 Plus, diluted 1 + 14, (1 + 9 yields "normal" contrast, and 1 + 19 is recommended for push processing) which would likely require reducing your exposure by one stop and playing around with the developing times. I think that such a time is provided for Ilford HP5, rated at 250ASA and processed for 14 minutes at 20 C--I think that I saw this on he Massive Development Chart. I haven't tried the 1+14 dilution, but I have used 1+11 with some films with good results. Again, you'd need to either experiment or perhaps someone on this forum could provide better guidance?

gone · Dec 18, 2022

It might be more than just the developer. I've unwittingly made low contrast pics by accidentally underexposing the film. Then there are films that are naturally low, or lower, contrast films, as opposed to high contrast films. I believe that coated lenses have less contrast than coated ones too. Flare and veiling flare will reduce contrast, as will shooting in low or "bad" lighting. Film underdevelopment, as stated above, will certainly give you lower contrast.

Sirius Glass · Dec 18, 2022

Selenium toning the thin negative can help but only with what is already in the negative. It cannot bring detail that is not already there.

relistan · Dec 19, 2022

lieven2323 said:
I know POTA developer but not sure where to buy it. It seems hard to find.
I see they sell it at B&H photo and at Adorama.

POTA is not a commercial developer, you’d have to mix it yourself. It has an extremely short lifespan (a few hours) and had to be mixed before use each time. But it achieves some of the lowest known contrast. It was invented for nuclear photography I think but it is not mostly used for document films and other very high contrast films to achieve pictorial contrast. The link @Rudeofus posted is showing some other low contrast developers along similar lines.

Rudeofus · Dec 19, 2022

relistan said:
POTA is not a commercial developer, you’d have to mix it yourself. It has an extremely short lifespan (a few hours) and had to be mixed before use each time. But it achieves some of the lowest known contrast. It was invented for nuclear photography I think but it is not mostly used for document films and other very high contrast films to achieve pictorial contrast. The link @Rudeofus posted is showing some other low contrast developers along similar lines.

There are some low contrast devs for sale at Photo Formulary: POTA, Delagi 8 and one of Bill Troop's low contrast formulas. Some photo retailers are known to resell Formulary's products.

Rudeofus · Dec 19, 2022

lievenius2323 said:
Which formula with Phenidone do you use to produce ultra low contrast film and print?

Rereading your posting, you also asked about print developers. This will be a lot harder, since most photographic paper have "inherent contrast", which means: they will give you the same contrast pretty much regardless of developer. If you underdevelop, your print will not be low contrast, but extremely uneven, with some sections fully developed, while others still remain white.

If you want a low contrast print, you will have to start with a low contrast negative.

Which formula with Phenidone to produce ultra low contrast film and print

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