Which films NEED a hardening fixer?

John51 · May 21, 2014

Hi, I'm going to homebrew my 'plain fixer', as outlined in this thread:

http://heylloyd.com/technicl/plain.htm

Basically Hypo plus Sodium Sulphate.

What films can't it be used for? I'll be using CMS, Agfa 100, Pan F (all 35mm) and Delta !00 (120).

I understand that it is a no no to use the same batch of fixer for both film and paper.

Thanks

John

Roger Cole · May 21, 2014

The only ones I'm aware of recently that recommended a hardening fixer were Efke films, and they're gone. The Foma films are definitely softer and easier to scratch then Kodak/Ilford/Fuji but you can probably get by without it if you are careful with the wet film - very careful. Of those, I don't know who makes the "Agfa" branded film now and I don't know about the Adox. The Pan F and Delta won't need hardener.

AgX · May 21, 2014

Sodium Sulphate would only be used in fixers for tropical use with films of unsufficient hardened gelatin.

Xmas · May 21, 2014

John51 said:
Hi, I'm going to homebrew my 'plain fixer', as outlined in this thread:

http://heylloyd.com/technicl/plain.htm

Basically Hypo plus Sodium Sulphate.

What films can't it be used for? I'll be using CMS, Agfa 100, Pan F (all 35mm) and Delta !00 (120).

I understand that it is a no no to use the same batch of fixer for both film and paper.

Thanks

John

I think you mean
'Hypo plus sodium sulphite'

It can be used with any film but you need to be careful with films that are not prehardened by keeping the temperature of the developer, stop bath, fixer and wash water close to previous bath.

Think CMS is prehardened the others you quote are.

The Adox CHS 100 type I was not prehardened the type II probably is.

There are web data sheets for most films google and down load.

Sometimes the card box the film came in has more details.

If you do use a hardener then you need to increase wash time.

Kodak and Ilford provide web 'how tos' for home processing, google and download.

Ian Grant · May 21, 2014

You mean Sodium Sulphite, not sulphate.

I've used all the softer emulsion films like the EFKE range and Pomapan in non hardening developers for a few years now with no issues in hon hardening fixers,

Ian

John51 said:
Hi, I'm going to homebrew my 'plain fixer', as outlined in this thread:

http://heylloyd.com/technicl/plain.htm

Basically Hypo plus Sodium Sulphate.

What films can't it be used for? I'll be using CMS, Agfa 100, Pan F (all 35mm) and Delta !00 (120).

I understand that it is a no no to use the same batch of fixer for both film and paper.

Thanks

John

Photo Engineer · May 21, 2014

Sodium Sulfate is indeed used to prevent scratching of soft films. Sodium Sulfite is also added as a preservative.

Most modern films from Kodak, Fuji and Ilford are hard enough that a hardening fixer is not needed, but others may need a hardening fixer and this must be determined on a case by case basis.

PE

heterolysis · May 21, 2014

I've never used a hardening fixer because I never needed one.... and then I shot a roll of Foma... What a mess!

John51 · May 22, 2014

Yep, sodium sulphite, not sulphate.

Thanks for the replies, good to know that most films are ok with non hardening fixers.

Xmas · May 22, 2014

Even the Forma is ok without a hardening bath

If you dont presoak
temper to within 1C
use plain water stop

even with a film squeegee!

Noel

Roger Cole · May 22, 2014

I do presoak with the Jobo. But still if you are very careful the Foma should be ok. I wouldn't use a squeegee on it, but then again I'd never use a squeegee on any film.

fotch · May 22, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Sodium Sulfate is indeed used to prevent scratching of soft films. Sodium Sulfite is also added as a preservative.

Most modern films from Kodak, Fuji and Ilford are hard enough that a hardening fixer is not needed, but others may need a hardening fixer and this must be determined on a case by case basis.

PE

I still have several packages of Kodak fixer with hardener, does it hurt in any way, to use on modern film even if they don't need it?

MattKing · May 22, 2014

fotch said:
I still have several packages of Kodak fixer with hardener, does it hurt in any way, to use on modern film even if they don't need it?

As long as you wash it well, no.

Photo Engineer · May 22, 2014

fotch said:
I still have several packages of Kodak fixer with hardener, does it hurt in any way, to use on modern film even if they don't need it?

Hardening fixers do not hurt today's super hard films. As said above, wash well as the swell will be low and wash rates will need to be longer. The standard retained hypo and retained Silver tests will help determine the time.

PE

fotch · May 22, 2014

Thanks

Which films NEED a hardening fixer?

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