Which exposure is correct?

Ole said:

Haris - from f:16 to f:32 os two stops, so you need four flashes for the same exposure. In reality you would use five flashes after wasting a lot of time and film believing that 2+2=4.

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Or just move the two closer (ducks and covers)

The left two or the right two?

Where does the four end up? What about the smiley face?

Is it time for lunch yet?

Usage makes it correct

2F/2F said:

ergh... Strobe is used incorrectly as a photographic term to mean electronic flash, most often studio flash. A strobe is a light that repeats at constant intervals. Strobe in photographic terms, to apply to electronic flash, is a nickname and a misnomer. The origin of the term is said to come from that fact that once electronic flash came to be used, some shooters developed a very fast style of shooting in studio, which was reminiscent of a strobe...hence "Strobes is what they are called when you fire them off like a fool. ...but even then they are really only electronic flash." Strobes they may be called by most of the photographic community, but strobes they ain't.

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You are absolutely correct, of course. But language is a living thing, words and their meanings come and go. Some of them drive me nuts, too, just like your "strobe" observation.

When my father was a professional and I was a little kid more than half a century ago I recall that his electronic flash was always referred to as a strobe. I don't think it was just him, it was common parlance. But it does seem to have dropped from usage except in studio flash work. Mostly, it's just "flash" to most folks, pro and amateur alike. That should make you happy!

(The power source was a large metal case with a 6V wet cell battery, a vibrator, transformer and other necessary components to jack the voltage way up. The flash bulb measured about 3" long, the reflector was standard Big. He mostly used a Speed Graphic with 30 film holders, all in a large handled box. Then he used the lens in the enlarger. I see modern photographers with their light weight auto everything digital whiz bangs and the results are all over the map, unlike my father's work with all that weight and things to go wrong. I realy respect him, he's 90 now.)

Yeah, nicknames are useful. It is not so much the use of the term "strobe" as much as it is that I was corrected for mentioning that it is a misnomer.

Personally, I just call it flash. If I need to differentiate between a Speedlite (or shall I say self-contained, easily-portable, camera-mountable flash?) or a pack/head or monolamp system, I just use the term studio flash. If someone calls it strobes, no harm, no foul. But I do think they should at least know that they are using a nickname, and not correct those who bring this up as a simple point of trivia.

Ole said:

Haris - from f:16 to f:32 os two stops, so you need four flashes for the same exposure. In reality you would use five flashes after wasting a lot of time and film believing that 2+2=4.

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Yes, two stops, thanks Ole. f16+f16=f22 f22+f16 is not f32, it is half a stop less, f22+f16+f16 is f32, so 4 stops. And because of initial flash for first f16, yes, I agree that it needs 5 flashes of f16 to get f32... So, photography mathemathic teaches us: 1+1=3...

I will try this when return home (that is when get my meter in hands).

Never mind, I just wrote that as example of what can one do when need it, not getting into precision of calculations

haris said:

And whle I am there one tip. Let say you need f32 for your photograph. And you have lower powered flashes which can give to you only light enough for f16. You do next: disconnect flashes from camera, set camera for enough shutter speed to flashes have time to fully recharge 3 times, press shutter button on camera, manually fire flashes once, leave them to fully recharge, fire them second time, recharge, fire third time. If you set camera on Bulb or Time shutter setting, close shutter. Why 3 times? Well 3 stops difference between f16 and f32. If flashes give some power and you need more, just calculate how many stops is difference from flash power and neede power, and fire flashes that many times. My Gossen SixtomatFlash meter make that calculations, so it is not something unknown for photographers.

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This is a great tip. I would of never thought about doing that. I have written it in my lighting notes and will try this very soon. Thank you Haris

Okay, now the rest of this strobe/electronic flash/light producing boxes talk is really way off topic. I do understand that there is all kinds of verbage for a studio flash. I have always called them strobes. I will from this day on I will refer to them as studio flash or monolights to keep the masses at bay.

2F/2F said:

If someone calls it strobes, no harm, no foul. But I do think they should at least know that they are using a nickname, and not correct those who bring this up as a simple point of trivia.

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I want to thank you in helping me see the difference in a nickname and the correct book term. I actually have a speedlite and I have a set of 4 JTL Versalight 300 monolights. and like Paul Verizzo said

You are absolutely correct, of course. But language is a living thing, words and their meanings come and go.

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When I posted this thread I was trying to include all the information that I felt someone could need to try and answer my questions. I was trying to keep from being blasted for posting 5 negative scans and asking which one is right ang have someone to come back and blast me for not giving enough information. Well in my search for providing information to the masses on my situation I got in a hurry and made several typo mistakes of apeture and not just using the correct f#, the adding of the 1/250 shutter speed among other things that were pointed out earlier. All this made me seem like a meek amatuer. Well I am to MF, processing and printing, thats why I am here along with being around other individuals that still believe in the film process. I have been photographing for almost 8 years now when I bought my first 35mm film camera. I even moved up to digital when it got cheap and quickly threw it out, and now I have a MF camera. All this being said I took your first post as an attack or blast that had nothing to do with what I was originally asking.(This does not need to be responded to cause I will not respond to anything else that does not have to do with the scans I posted.) We have not gotten way off topic and although this topic has taught me new things. If your battle is with the word strobe then you have a large one a head of you cause a search on this forum for the word strobe or strobes produces 574 results dating from today all the way back to 2002, so there are a few people that also call them strobes.

I have tried in several post to kindly say I got the information I was looking for and thanked everyone for their help, but this strobe hijacking just seems to keep coming up. I think we can let this thread die a quiet death. If a moderator would like to lock this bad boy down and let it die a locked death it would not break my heart.

Thank you,
-Dan

Ole said:

Haris - from f:16 to f:32 os two stops, so you need four flashes for the same exposure. In reality you would use five flashes after wasting a lot of time and film believing that 2+2=4.

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I am lost here. Why the fifth flash?
One unit of light for if f16
Two units for f22
Four units for f32
You don't add a shot at f16 if shooting at f32
Do we?
Regards
Bill

All the maths say that we should use four flashes, and not an "extra" one for f:16. Yet all experience shows that you need about 20% more if you do it by several flashes, so you add another one to give the extra 20%.

I am going to have to try this. I never considered shooting in this manner.

I vote for either 5 or 6. You've got excellent blacks and good whites with no washed out detail in the statue.
Yes, my monitor is set properly, I use iMac 24".

Rolleijoe

cowanw said:

I am lost here. Why the fifth flash?
One unit of light for if f16
Two units for f22
Four units for f32
You don't add a shot at f16 if shooting at f32
Do we?
Regards
Bill

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Yes, mathematics tells us 4 flashes. But, if you carefully read Ole's corrective post to my post, he clearly said he wasted lots of film to establish conclusion that extra flash is needed. So far all Ole's posts I read were very informative, helpfull and I trust him, so even if I didn't use this technique that much to tell from mine real experience, I will trust Ole this time also. Simply, Ole tried and tells from experience. And we can, atleast I do trust him.

Regards

Steve Smith said:

Hmmm. Someone just as pedantic as me regarding spelling and grammar!

My vote would be for the first image (No. 5) although No. 6 looks good too.


Steve.

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"Someone just as pedantic as me" ?

Not pedantic if you put it like that!