Which exc value (small) 120 ish lens for 5x7?

Tom Stanworth · Feb 18, 2005

Hi,

Having moved from 5x4 to 5x7&10x8 I have a lens gap in the 120 region, which I suspect would get a lot of use. I have 150 and 90mm covered, so it really is this niche. I have so far gone for the G clarons and other light designs which offer good performance and are not too expensive.

Can anyone recommend any 120 ish mm lenses which offer decent field use coverage for 5x7. I believe that the 120 angulon does not cover very well at all? I would be happy to use an older design if it is light and a decent price, so long as it is coated and available in reasonable shutters. Equally I have no problem with lenses that need stoping down for good sharpness as long as coverage is not straight on only. The 110XL is out of my price range and the 120 F8s too heavy to make sense (if I can avoid them!). Any dagors in this focal length, secret Fujis that are light and cover? Its a tough one.......

Cheers,

Tom

colrehogan · Feb 18, 2005

You might check this site out for at least an idea of what's out there. I don't think the prices are anywhere near current, but you can do some research.

http://www.cocam.co.uk/CoCamWS/Equip/LFlensSpec.htm

jimgalli · Feb 18, 2005

You're right. This is a definite "gap". How I wish Schneider had made 120mm G-Claron's. The old standby that will absolutely get the job done is the f8 wide angle Dagor of 4 3/8". Meets every criteria but one. Prices on these have gone berserk! The link is to one that sold 2 weeks ago for $910 for cryin' out loud. Add $200 to that and you've got your 110XL. 2nd best to the Goerz is the Wolly f12.5 4 1/4". But insist on a coated one as these have 8 air/glass surfaces to the Dagor's 4. BTW insist on return privileges if you go for a Dagor. It took 3 tries for me to get a good one. 2 had problems between glued elements. Not sure if that's normal or if my luck is just bad. Both of the above can be had in viable shutters. The Goerz in a Compur and the Wolly in a small Alphax or Rapax. I'm not an Angulon fan. Been there done that and almost always dis-appointed. The best Angulon I've had was an early 12cm in a funky Compur 1. You want to get interested in the little 120 Congo! Modern Copal shutter, f6.3, multi-coated, should be just what you're after, but Kerry Thalmann tested 3 of them and never did get a decent one. Last but not least is the 1972 or so 121 Super Angulon. Make sure it's the one in the early style Copal 0. You don't want the earlier more common 121 in the Compur. These are biggish, but tolerable. They do everything better than or at least as good as the f8 Dagor and for a lot less $$ but they are quite a bit bigger. Cake and eat it too?? I've used the 121 on the 8X10 straight on and usually in situations where I was in a bit from infinity.

Tom Stanworth · Feb 19, 2005

Jim, I might look into the Congo, Do you know what the coverage is? No srprise the Dagor prices are nuts if there are no small alternatives! I personally would pay a little more for the 110! One thing I have considered after seeing an overprices Fuji 105 F8 on ebay, was to sell my 90 f8 Nikkor (I really do not want to do this if I can help it as it is a keeper) and get one of the 105s. With 250+mm coverage and about 500g it could replace both a 120 and a 90 closing tha gap to 150 slightly. The seller started at $550 though, which onnce I have paid import tax etc becomes too much. Still, if I could find a cheaper one.....

Tom

Nick Zentena · Feb 19, 2005

I think the congo has just enough coverage for 5x7.

http://www.cosmonet.org/congo/frame_e.htm

Considering the price I'm not sure it's worth it. Does the 121mm angulon have more coverage? It was suggested to me awhile back.

ChuckP · Feb 19, 2005

I use the 120 Osaka (Congo) with 5x7. It does just cover. Got mine on Ebay for around $250 with lensboard. They do have a bad rep for quality but I have found that mine is very sharp. I couldn't be happier with the images. Maybe I got lucky. But I use it basically straight on as it has no real coverage for movements. For that you need one of the big 120 wide angles. Many times bigger than the Osaka. I'd like a Nikon 120 as it seems a little smaller with 77mm filter and also can be used for 8x10. But to carry it I would need to take some other lens out. I also use the Nikon 90 f8 with the 5x7. Again not much in movements but this is a great lens. I'd say the best idea is get the 110XL. I may do that down the line. Think of it as an investment. I've found that my large format lenses have basically held the value over time.

Ole · Feb 19, 2005

The 120 Angulon does cover, and very well too - at small apertures. Schneider claimed it covered 5x7" but not 13x18cm at f:16, so it has plenty of surplus coverage at f:45! It should theoretically cover 8x10" at f:64...

The 121/8 Super Angulon is much bigger and heavier, but still not in the "ridiculous" range. Mine is very nice although much bigger than my miniscule 120 Angulon (yes, I have both). This one covers 8x10" at f:32.

I also have an ancient 13cm Busch Wideangle Aplanat f:16 with rotating stops, no shutter. That covers 18x24cm and probably 8x10". Not as sharp as an anastigmat, though, and there's no shutter.

jimgalli · Feb 19, 2005

Tom Stanworth said:
Jim, I might look into the Congo, Do you know what the coverage is? No srprise the Dagor prices are nuts if there are no small alternatives! I personally would pay a little more for the 110! One thing I have considered after seeing an overprices Fuji 105 F8 on ebay, was to sell my 90 f8 Nikkor (I really do not want to do this if I can help it as it is a keeper) and get one of the 105s. With 250+mm coverage and about 500g it could replace both a 120 and a 90 closing tha gap to 150 slightly. The seller started at $550 though, which onnce I have paid import tax etc becomes too much. Still, if I could find a cheaper one.....

Tom

You could do the justification game here, sell the 90 and use that $ and the $ you were going to spend on a Congo, and get the 110XL. I play this game all the time.

Tom Stanworth · Feb 19, 2005

unfortunately even after I sell the 90 Nikkor, I would still be very short (much more so than after buying a used congo or 120 Angulon (ive seen these for £150 very clean indeed. I guess I will just have to keep sniffing for a bargain....still, a 110 would be nice

Tom

Tom Hoskinson · Feb 19, 2005

Yes, the 110XL is very nice indeed on my 5x7. As a bonus, it covers 8x10 as well (stopped down and no movements). Save your pennies!

Steve Hamley · Feb 19, 2005

Hey Jim (Galli),

I was looking at that 4-3/8" Gold dagor too as a light alternative to the 110 SS XL, but lost interest when the bidding went above $600. I'd rather have a heavy wallet than a light pack - and like you, I'd rather have the Schneider 110 SS XL for $200 more, especially since it will cover 8x10.

But a "regular" 6" Gold Dagor which only does 5x7 recently went for $600+. So what's the deal? Why are these lenses going for astronomical sums?

Steve

jimgalli · Feb 19, 2005

Steve Hamley said:
Hey Jim (Galli),

But a "regular" 6" Gold Dagor which only does 5x7 recently went for $600+. So what's the deal? Why are these lenses going for astronomical sums?

Steve

Dagor's are a phenomenon. But there are occasional bargains. The one I have now was on a goshawful wreck of a Brand Camera and I'm not sure why the rest of the bargain hunters didn't notice it but I'm glad they didn't. It was on the front plain as day and camera and lens were about $160.

That 6" was probably the one I sold last week without the "buffing job" on the front barrel for half the price. There are about one million more Golden Dagor's floating about than Am. Opt. Co. ever made.

Alan Sugiyama · Feb 19, 2005

Tom, you might check into the C.P.Goerz Am.Opt. 5" 127mm/6.8 Dagors (I have a coated one in a Rapax synch shutter) that covers 221mm/82° at f/22 and 241mm/87° at f/45. There is also a W.A. Dagor 5"/8.0 that covers 250mm/89° at f/22 and 308mm/101° at f/45, although I have NEVER seen one of these! Good Luck......
Alan

clay · Feb 20, 2005

The 110 Super Symmar XL is hands down one of the sharpest lenses around.

If you want small, you may be able to lay your hands on a Rodenstock 120/12 Perigon. It is essentially a coated, slightly faster Protar V made in the sixties and seventies. It is tiny and covers something over 100 degrees. It is also very sharp, albeit not in the 110XL class.

Tom Stanworth · Feb 20, 2005

I will look out for a nie selected 120 angulon and see what turns up and what performance is like. I will also look for a bargain of a 110XL (fat chance!), but that would neccessitate selling my 90mm Nikkor F8, an absolutely as new outstanding lens. Anyone owning one of these who has had a scene where it can be used at f11.5 to f16.5 on 5x4 will know what I mean. Astonishing resolution. It might be really nice for panoramas on 5x7 too, so I would hate to get rid of it. According to Perez's tests this lens very significantly outperforms the 110 as far as resolution is concerned, though I doubt one would ever see a difference on a print. Yes, I want my cake, 2 servings in fact Oh a 150XL, make that 3 servings.

Tom

esearing · Feb 21, 2005

Have you considered 135mm? Older schneider xenars come up for auction all the time for under $150 in a compur shutter, a little more if in a copal. Check the image circle for your needs.

Ole · Feb 21, 2005

esearing said:
Have you considered 135mm? Older schneider xenars come up for auction all the time for under $150 in a compur shutter, a little more if in a copal. Check the image circle for your needs.

A Schneider Xenar 135mm is a normal lens for 9x12cm. Coverage is very tight for 4x5", and won't stretch to anything bigger. Xenar 180mm is absolute minimum for 5x7", and 210mm is more common.

I happen to have 135mm Tessar, Planar, and Eurynar lenses - none of which stretch much beyond 4x5". Wide-angle lenses are a different matter.

Which exc value (small) 120 ish lens for 5x7?

Tom Stanworth

colrehogan

jimgalli

Tom Stanworth

Nick Zentena

ChuckP

Ole

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jimgalli

Tom Stanworth

Tom Hoskinson

Steve Hamley

jimgalli

Alan Sugiyama

clay

Tom Stanworth

esearing

Ole

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Which exc value (small) 120 ish lens for 5x7?

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