Which chemical causes black streaks?

get_me_a_gun · Apr 9, 2006

Whenever I print and use tongs, I get black smudges on my prints, I was wondering which chemical is causing this to happen. Sometimes i can wipe it off in water, but it usually ends up staining my print.

I use FRESH chemicals, so why is this still happening? (I guess I'll stick to using gloves).

Thanks

ps I use FB paper.

agGNOME · Apr 9, 2006

Hi. Well, it sounds like you are seeing streaks of developer draining from the tongs. Are the smudges or streaks showing where you held the print with the tongs? If so, your paper may not be fully developed before you are pulling it out, and hence the dev. draining around the tongs is creating more density than the rest of the print. So, having fresh chemicals or not would not matter. Try exposing for a little less time and add a minute or so to your development. This scenario is assuming that you are not cross-contaminating anything , that your tongs are clean, and the rest of your procedure is sound.

get_me_a_gun · Apr 9, 2006

agGNOME said:
Hi. Well, it sounds like you are seeing streaks of developer draining from the tongs. Are the smudges or streaks showing where you held the print with the tongs? If so, your paper may not be fully developed before you are pulling it out, and hence the dev. draining around the tongs is creating more density than the rest of the print. So, having fresh chemicals or not would not matter. Try exposing for a little less time and add a minute or so to your development. This scenario is assuming that you are not cross-contaminating anything , that your tongs are clean, and the rest of your procedure is sound.

Usually I hold my print long enough so the liquid (either dev, stop, or fix) drains so that it drips with time in between.. maybe i am holding it too tightly or is it drying the paper where my tongs are touching it?

I put my print in developer for 2 minutes (its sprint dev).

agGNOME · Apr 9, 2006

Hey. I don't think you are draining the prints too long or holding too tight. It sounds like you are draining your prints properly... waiting for a slow or very slow drip before the next bath is good; you'll carry less over. If you were holding the prints too tight you would see creases or indentions. Eventhough some developers may say two minutes is ok, some papers take longer to fully develop. In fact, for fiber ( which you're using) I would dev. for at least three minutes regardless of the brand of developer. Most fiber paper develops fully in 3-5 minutes (single bath, average dilutions). and if you have to adjust for density do it with your exposure. I've had what I think is the same issue before when I was testing some new paper. Increasing dev. by a minute solved the problem.
Give it a try, adding one minute that is. I think you'll be surprised. Rule out this variable first.
Are you sharing the trays with other printers?

winger · Apr 9, 2006

I use 2 minutes for Ilford FB and have never seen streaks.
I don't think it's likely to be that. Is each set of tongs only touching one chemical? And are they washed (not just rinsed) before each printing session (assuming others have used them since the last time they were washed)? When I used a gang darkroom, several people would put a print from the developer to the stop, push it down with those tongs, and then put those tongs back with the developer. Things can go forward (like the print), but not backward.

get_me_a_gun · Apr 9, 2006

winger said:
I use 2 minutes for Ilford FB and have never seen streaks.
I don't think it's likely to be that. Is each set of tongs only touching one chemical? And are they washed (not just rinsed) before each printing session (assuming others have used them since the last time they were washed)? When I used a gang darkroom, several people would put a print from the developer to the stop, push it down with those tongs, and then put those tongs back with the developer. Things can go forward (like the print), but not backward.

That may be the problem, I do use a public darkroom. I try to keep my own tongs clean but I cant really trust anyone else. If a tong falls into the dirty sink, most people wont think twice about it. So I guess the solution is printing at 3 AM. ALONE. : )

agGNOME · Apr 9, 2006

yeah, gang darkrooms can get sloppy. If you have a scanner post an example, it would be easier to evaluate.

get_me_a_gun · Apr 9, 2006

agGNOME said:
yeah, gang darkrooms can get sloppy. If you have a scanner post an example, it would be easier to evaluate.

http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/7483/stains2ow.jpg

sorry, crappy out of focus but you get the idea : )

agGNOME · Apr 9, 2006

oh yeah, that's not what I imagined. I was thinking developer streaks which can be an issue depending on you comb. of paper and time in the developer. Okay, so if you're following the correct chemical and wash procedures , the chemistry is fresh (does the staff replenish often enough); then it seems reasonable to say it's contamination. Another high possibility is sludge build-up in the developer tray (looks brown with a silver sheen) staining the back of the prints. Avoidable with proper scrubbing.
It could be your fellow printers and their handling of the tongs. Also, bamboo tongs absorb the chemistry and if the staff at the end of the day is not washing them thoroughly, or at all before the next day that could be one source.
Proper fixing and agitating the print for the first thirty seconds of fixing is important .A two bath fixing method helps ensure proper fixing especially with large volume printing.
You may find some non-abrasive way of confronting the other printers if they are being sloppy, or talk to management and see if they are willing to help.
good luck, cameron

glennfromwy · Apr 9, 2006

Yep, something about those tongs. What kind are they? Do they have rubber tips? I never get any marks, even though I never wash the tongs. They only touch one thing each. Always the same old stuff, too. Never a problem. This puzzles me. Even if you picked the print out of the developer with the fixer tongs, it should not leave marks. The black marks are mystifying to me. Is there any metal contacting the print?

get_me_a_gun · Apr 9, 2006

glennfromwy said:
Yep, something about those tongs. What kind are they? Do they have rubber tips? I never get any marks, even though I never wash the tongs. They only touch one thing each. Always the same old stuff, too. Never a problem. This puzzles me. Even if you picked the print out of the developer with the fixer tongs, it should not leave marks. The black marks are mystifying to me. Is there any metal contacting the print?

I use the bamboo tongs with rubber tips. Nope I've never put my print near metal. I think its just the residue of chemicals on tongs, although i always put the developer tongs in the developer, stop bath tongs in the stop bath, etc. they never get mixed up in order. I think it may also be the trays we have at my school. I guess Ill have to buy my own and be very selfish about my printing.

Thanks for all your help thusfar.

agGNOME · Apr 9, 2006

should have asked :
how long are you fixing? Is the fixer exhausting too quickly?
are you using a hypo-clearing agent?
how long are you washing?

get_me_a_gun · Apr 9, 2006

agGNOME said:
should have asked :
how long are you fixing? Is the fixer exhausting too quickly?
are you using a hypo-clearing agent?
how long are you washing?

I fix for 3 minutes and wash for at least 20 minutes. I always check my fixer with hypocheck every 10 prints or so.
Ive noticed that if I wash for a lot longer than 20 minutes the prints start to fall apart and peel.

agGNOME · Apr 10, 2006

hmm, seems like the paper would hold stronger than that. Is this a really turbulent wash? I've left prints for several hours taking a swim and the corners become delicate with maybe a bit of peel, but not necessarily falling apart. Using a hypo-clear bath after the fixer and before the wash should help, if you don't already do that. Have you tried singing to your prints?

agGNOME · Apr 10, 2006

no, just kidding

agGNOME · Apr 10, 2006

If you could manage your own trays and tongs you should be okay. The others probably aren't helping your cause....I've been in the same situation. Luckily, I had a darkroom at home and my professor understood why i didn't want to print during class. It doesn't seem like you're doing anything unreasonable; if you could add more washing time it would help though. cameron

skahde · Apr 10, 2006

get_me_a_gun said:
Whenever I print and use tongs, I get black smudges on my prints,

Sounds familiar. In my case it was the black rubber tips which started to desintegrate and left a brown/black smear on the prints. I exchanged them for clear silicone-tips and the problem disappeared.

Stefan

Colden · Jul 3, 2006

If you have already ruled out everything else suggested above and still have the same problem, you may want to see if it is possible that your paper is getting contaminated with a minute amount of some chemical in the printing phase (or while being handled and removed from the paper box). Notice that the marks in your example are on the non-emulsion underside of the paper. It could be either drops of chemistry spilled around the enlarger or easel, or, perhaps, a bit of residual chemistry on your gloves (or hands).

Which chemical causes black streaks?

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