Which camera from Dresden to get

CMoore · Feb 24, 2023

Interesting.
I had no idea that Dresden had a particular association with Film/Photography.
I know that, post war, there was a photographer Richard Peter, that took LOTS of photos of the city for a few years.
I cannot find any definitive book that is credited to him. I have seen some of his photos on The Internet, but that is a bout it.
Anybody know if he had a book of photos published about post war Dresden.?

War is a horrible thing.
It amazes me how many buildings were, seemingly, saved after the February 1945 bomb raids.

They were devastating.,

markjwyatt · Feb 25, 2023

Here are a Dresden pair shooting each other with their time period appropriate Carl Zeiss Jena 35mm f2.N (N= 4 or 8) Flektogons.

Coffee and Camera; Exakta,Flektogon by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

Camera and Coffee; Praktica, Flektogon by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

I have a couple other Prakticas (including a IV). Plus this little beauty form 1938+/-1

Ihagee Folder by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

ant! · Feb 25, 2023

CMoore said:
Interesting.
I had no idea that Dresden had a particular association with Film/Photography.
I know that, post war, there was a photographer Richard Peter, that took LOTS of photos of the city for a few years.
I cannot find any definitive bo
It amazes me how many buildings were, seemingly, saved after the February 1945 bomb raids.

They were devastating.,

The German Wikipedia mentions a few books from Peter: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Peter#Werke (with the ISBN the books should be searchable...).

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Dresden shows in the right side a list of camera makers from Dresden...

Regarding buildings saved: much was rebuilt, partly from scratch or a few stones, like Frauenkirche (I still remember it in ruins in the 90s), with all the buildings around it now just being fake without a real historical building. The palace, opera etc were rebuilt until the 80s. Other parts of the centre were rebuilt completely new in 50s to 80s communist style (Prager Straße, Kulturpalast,...). Some parts were never/rarely destroyed, e.g. Äußere Neustadt...
But yeah, like so many other cities, Warsaw, Rotterdam etc... Prague wasn't much destroyed, so it's very old still...

ant! · Feb 25, 2023

markjwyatt said:
Here are a Dresden pair shooting each other with their time period appropriate Carl Zeiss Jena 35mm f2.N (N= 4 or 8) Flektogons.

Nice! I like the look of the exakta, and the folder looks great as well! As said, I'd love to find a folder in good condition. Let's see...

Regarding exakta: so the sweet spot send to be the Varex IIa? Yours is the VX, which seems similar?

So, I think my favourites for now:
- Exakta Varex or Praktina: the Exakta more weired-interesting and beautiful, the Praktina more forward thinking and cool.
- A folder, be it Certo, ihagee or whatever, preferable medium format
- contax II
- noblex panorama camera, even though it seems they have some internal weaknesses

Radost · Feb 25, 2023

Certo six
the best.
6x6 folder with coupled VF and 80mm f2.8 lens

markjwyatt · Feb 25, 2023

ant! said:
Nice! I like the look of the exakta, and the folder looks great as well! As said, I'd love to find a folder in good condition. Let's see...

Regarding exakta: so the sweet spot send to be the Varex IIa? Yours is the VX, which seems similar?

So, I think my favourites for now:
- Exakta Varex or Praktina: the Exakta more weired-interesting and beautiful, the Praktina more forward thinking and cool.
- A folder, be it Certo, ihagee or whatever, preferable medium format
- contax II
- noblex panorama camera, even though it seems they have some internal weaknesses

I have a Contax iia and a Kiev 4a, and like shooting both (mainly the Contax). The Contax ii would be very close (and better) than the Kiev 4a, which is a derivative of the Contax ii. All three shoot similarly, though the iia does not require the "Contax Claw" technique that the ii and iii, as well as the Kiev's do. It is not a big deal, and occurs because of the large rangefinder baseline (and resultant accuracy) of the Contax ii and iii rangefinder design.

As for Exakta, The biggest change (self return mirror) does not come until the early 60's I think,(VX1000) and the cameras did not look quite as nice then (in my opinion), but were still solid performers. The V's and VX's and especially earlier cameras can suffer from pinholes in the shutter material, so check that out. My VX seems fine. The DDR did not interfere too much with Exakta for a long time, and they were able to keep operating largely as they were in the past. Lot of the other camera companies in the DDR got lumped into Pentacon (which did produce some nice cameras). Keep in mind with the Exakta vs. Praktina- good lenses are much more available and inexpensive for the Exakta (some are very expensive for both of course). Fortunately lot of those lenses are available in M42 also, which is one reason why I also follow that route, and the Pentacons become relevant (my two main M42s are a Fuji ST 705w and a Praktica MTL50).

CMoore · Feb 25, 2023

ant! said:
The German Wikipedia mentions a few books from Peter: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Peter#Werke (with the ISBN the books should be searchable...).

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Dresden shows in the right side a list of camera makers from Dresden...

Regarding buildings saved: much was rebuilt, partly from scratch or a few stones, like Frauenkirche (I still remember it in ruins in the 90s), with all the buildings around it now just being fake without a real historical building. The palace, opera etc were rebuilt until the 80s. Other parts of the centre were rebuilt completely new in 50s to 80s communist style (Prager Straße, Kulturpalast,...). Some parts were never/rarely destroyed, e.g. Äußere Neustadt...
But yeah, like so many other cities, Warsaw, Rotterdam etc... Prague wasn't much destroyed, so it's very old still...

Thank You

ph · Feb 26, 2023

The Guthe&Thorsch Kamera Werke in Niederzedlitz made stury cloth shutter Prakticas using theContax 42/1mm mount after the first narrower ones on the Praktiflex (not marked made in DDR) they adoptet the the Contax screw which was later adopted by Asahi.

Some of the early "schacht" vievfinder models had an accesory prism to precariously fit inside: reputedly made by zeiss Jena but sometimes marked KW.if you insist on Dresden correctness.

I have not run film through any of mine sticking with west German mechanics, limiting my DDR use to Werra and some of the optics, but reputedly, Pentacons later metal shutters were more robust and the light meter circuits of the later ones were of the bridge type, insensitive to the battery voltage.

There was also the Zeiss-Ikon labelled contax S and D reflexes with a somewhat quirky time setting mechanism The ones I have are not marked with "made in" origin .

DDR equipment : optics and mechanics can be expertly repaired by Andrea Schönfelder at foto Olbrich in Görlitz,

Apart from the Feinmess Bonotar I am not aware of lenses made in Dresden (of course Berteles Ernostar qualifies but is not for 35mm format), Before the "kombinat" creation, wihich similarly to Kodak stupidly wasted its hitorical advantages, lenses marked Pentacon were made by the Meyer factories and later by IOR in Rumenia. and steadily lost quality Afterwards they occasionally labelled lenses as Zeiss even if not made in Jena and in the end imported from Japan and labelled with Pentacon.

I recommend the book: "Der VEB Pentacon Dresden"(Sandstein verlag , no ISBN number) by Dr Gerhard Jehmlich who was research and development director in the Pentacon factory. On 263 pages he describes the technology and business development -including the mistakes. Lindemanns Buchhandel can supply any photo related book in- or out of print.

p.

Mondo1 · Feb 26, 2023

Interesting topic.
I love my Altix III and Altix IV and Altix V and Altiflex II as well my EXA 500.
I have a few 35 Baldas they are great but not at the top of my list.

ant! · Feb 27, 2023

ph said:
Some of the early "schacht" vievfinder models had an accesory prism to precariously fit inside: reputedly made by zeiss Jena but sometimes marked KW.if you insist on Dresden correctness.

DDR equipment : optics and mechanics can be expertly repaired by Andrea Schönfelder at foto Olbrich in Görlitz,

Apart from the Feinmess Bonotar I am not aware of lenses made in Dresden (of course Berteles Ernostar qualifies but is not for 35mm format), Before the "kombinat" creation, wihich similarly to Kodak stupidly wasted its hitorical advantages, lenses marked Pentacon were made by the Meyer factories and later by IOR in Rumenia. and steadily lost quality Afterwards they occasionally labelled lenses as Zeiss even if not made in Jena and in the end imported from Japan and labelled with Pentacon.

Yeah, regarding lenses I am more flexible, since I'm from Dresden and not from Jena... So, as long as it's a lens which roughly matches the camera's period (not a 50s M42 camera with a 80s lens...), I'm fine with it. Of course preferable one of the nicer lenses for the model. But first let's see what I find, this thread gave me already some good input for some cameras which I never had heard of before.

And yes, I was aware of Olbrich in Görlitz. So let's see what and when I get this little project completed, and what kind of servicing it will need...

Ian Grant · Feb 27, 2023

I recently sold a wonderful and very useable KW 6.6x9 Patent Etui as a complete kit, camera, 2 cases of 3 KW plate holders with film inserts, a Film pack back, and a Rada 6x9 120 roll film back. An ideal innovative Dresden camera, I've still got my 9x12 version.

Maybe though as you've obviously moved to the US you should check out KW's history, particularly Charles Noble a US citizen who had himself immigrated to the US from Germany, later moving back after swapping KW for his US company, ending up in Buchenwald with his son John after the war, by then a Soviet special prison.

When the Berlin Wall fell John Noble tried to regain control of some of what had been his father's former company, he was given one factory where he began making Noblex cameras.

Ian

grain elevator · Feb 27, 2023

If we count Balda (not from Dresden proper), I think the Baldamatic II and III are some of the cutest cameras ever made and probably quite ergonomic if you happen to be left-eye dominant.
Edit: Never mind, of course that's a West-German camera made after Balda moved west...

ant! · Feb 27, 2023

grain elevator said:
If we count Balda (not from Dresden proper), I think the Baldamatic II and III are some of the cutest cameras ever made and probably quite ergonomic if you happen to be left-eye dominant.
Edit: Never mind, of course that's a West-German camera made after Balda moved west...

The pre-45 Balda was indeed from Dresden, Laubegast is maybe not the center, but definitely part of the city. But I'm even fine with Freital, which is an independent town just behind Dresden's city limits, Welta, Pouva and some others were from there... (I think my father grew up in Freital, but family history is difficult...)

ant! · Feb 27, 2023

Ian Grant said:
I recently sold a wonderful and very useable KW 6.6x9 Patent Etui as a complete kit, camera, 2 cases of 3 KW plate holders with film inserts, a Film pack back, and a Rada 6x9 120 roll film back. An ideal innovative Dresden camera, I've still got my 9x12 version.

Maybe though as you've obviously moved to the US you should check out KW's history, particularly Charles Noble a US citizen who had himself immigrated to the US from Germany, later moving back after swapping KW for his US company, ending up in Buchenwald with his son John after the war, by then a Soviet special prison.

When the Berlin Wall fell John Noble tried to regain control of some of what had been his father's former company, he was given one factory where he began making Noblex cameras.

Ian

Thanks for explaining the link in between KW and Noblex! But since I am mostly a handheld shooter, I don't go (yet?) the plate film route. I'll check them still out, but I would need a roll film adapter...

Nokton48 · Feb 27, 2023

The Pentacon Factory is in Dresden, I've sent them two Pentacon Six Bodies to upgrade to Exakta 66 MK2 specs. Just as good as an EX66 in every way. Had a matched pair of them. The fellow who did the work passed, I hope they trained somebody else to do it. All those cheap medium format Golden lenses! The 30mm Kiev Fisheye, and the CZJ 180mm f2.8 Sonnar, are the principal reasons why a lot of folks jump in. They have quite a cult status and they are delicious lenses.

Peter Olbrich and Rolf Dieter Baier also did custom P6 work for me.

removedacct2 · Feb 27, 2023

ant! said:
my favourites for now:
- Exakta Varex or Praktina: the Exakta more weired-interesting and beautiful, the Praktina more forward thinking and cool.
- A folder, be it Certo, ihagee or whatever, preferable medium format
- contax II
- noblex panorama camera, even though it seems they have some internal weaknesses

the Varex. Only SLR, with also the later KMZ Start with a film knife, I think. Very useful, time saving, when you shot just few frames of a 24x or 36x canister. I mostly shot MF, lot of 6x9 so 8 frames per roll, so when i grab a 35mm I can not run a whole canister, hell 24 frames? worse 36? but max 10 or 12 frames, then I cut and develop. I have a Varex IIa in very good shape in/out, very nice. These bodies have also a unique shape, that may be good to exercise fingers in all possible ways until you find the better grab. May prevent arthritis.
Contax II is kind of very common, visually, because the huge number of Kiev derivatives produced. Folders also are ubiquitous.
If a Noblex then an MF one. I laughed first time I saw a Noblex: die Deutschen wait for soviets to leave DDR and make an expensive copy of the Gorizon, well ...

GDI · Feb 28, 2023

ant! said:
Nice! I like the look of the exakta, and the folder looks great as well! As said, I'd love to find a folder in good condition. Let's see...

Regarding exakta: so the sweet spot send to be the Varex IIa? Yours is the VX, which seems similar?

So, I think my favourites for now:
- Exakta Varex or Praktina: the Exakta more weired-interesting and beautiful, the Praktina more forward thinking and cool.
- A folder, be it Certo, ihagee or whatever, preferable medium format
- contax II
- noblex panorama camera, even though it seems they have some internal weaknesses

Regarding the Noblex cameras - the drive wheels are a weakness! They were poorly designed out of the factory, but you can get them upgraded by Bob Watkins or Siggi Rhode (Noblex Canada). I have cameras upgraded by both, used them for years, and have yet to see the problem return.

Of course, I have to reiterate that it is a specialty camera, so you’ll likely need another more general purpose camera.

ant! · Feb 28, 2023

Nokton48 said:
The Pentacon Factory is in Dresden, I've sent them two Pentacon Six Bodies to upgrade to Exakta 66 MK2 specs. Just as good as an EX66 in every way. Had a matched pair of them. The fellow who did the work passed, I hope they trained somebody else to do it. All those cheap medium format Golden lenses! The 30mm Kiev Fisheye, and the CZJ 180mm f2.8 Sonnar, are the principal reasons why a lot of folks jump in. They have quite a cult status and they are delicious lenses.

Peter Olbrich and Rolf Dieter Baier also did custom P6 work for me.

When was this? I thought there is no Pentacon anymore since 1990, or was this under a different company name? What are the (significant) differences in between the Pentacon Six and the Exakta 66/2? I think the Six was always on my radar, but read often about reliability issues (was it mostly frame spacing due to different film thicknesses, or was there more?)

The website of Baier says they are not working anymore. But I guess if necessary, Olbrich is a good place for all kinds of stuff. (In general I had made good experience with CLAs at Service Camera Pro in Quebec City, the best one close to me, and I guess not every camera needs someone specialized in a certain model, as long as no parts are required...)

ant! · Feb 28, 2023

GDI said:
Regarding the Noblex cameras - the drive wheels are a weakness! They were poorly designed out of the factory, but you can get them upgraded by Bob Watkins or Siggi Rhode (Noblex Canada). I have cameras upgraded by both, used them for years, and have yet to see the problem return.

Of course, I have to reiterate that it is a specialty camera, so you’ll likely need another more general purpose camera.

http://www.noblexcanada.com/ seems offline, but I was reading in the last days already on the website of Bob Watkins, so this would be an option if it is not possible in Canada anymore.
And yes, I have already a few "general purpose" camera systems, 35mm and 645 (plus TLR 6x6, halfframe, and a 6x9 rangefinder...), so this definitely a fun toy!

ant! · Feb 28, 2023

antonio_b said:
the Varex. Only SLR, with also the later KMZ Start with a film knife, I think. Very useful, time saving, when you shot just few frames of a 24x or 36x canister. I mostly shot MF, lot of 6x9 so 8 frames per roll, so when i grab a 35mm I can not run a whole canister, hell 24 frames? worse 36? but max 10 or 12 frames, then I cut and develop. I have a Varex IIa in very good shape in/out, very nice. These bodies have also a unique shape, that may be good to exercise fingers in all possible ways until you find the better grab. May prevent arthritis.
Contax II is kind of very common, visually, because the huge number of Kiev derivatives produced. Folders also are ubiquitous.
If a Noblex then an MF one. I laughed first time I saw a Noblex: die Deutschen wait for soviets to leave DDR and make an expensive copy of the Gorizon, well ...

Yes, the knife sounds fun, and I am not a crazy fast shooter, but on the other side: As more as I read about the Praktina, the more interesting it becomes! As said, the Exakta sounds more quirky, but at the time of the Varex IIa, the Praktina seem to be the more forward thinking camera. (I mean, the original Kine-Exakta was exactly this probably as well, just earlier...)

And indeed funny with Noblex!

Nokton48 · Mar 1, 2023

ant! said:
When was this? I thought there is no Pentacon anymore since 1990, or was this under a different company name? What are the (significant) differences in between the Pentacon Six and the Exakta 66/2?

No significant differences P6 vs EX66MK2. It was prolly fifteen years ago? For any and all info, check out this wonderful website:

www.pentaconsix.com

GDI · Mar 9, 2023

ant! said:
http://www.noblexcanada.com/ seems offline, but I was reading in the last days already on the website of Bob Watkins, so this would be an option if it is not possible in Canada anymore.
And yes, I have already a few "general purpose" camera systems, 35mm and 645 (plus TLR 6x6, halfframe, and a 6x9 rangefinder...), so this definitely a fun toy!

I am pretty sure Siggi can still have the Noblex repaired in Canada. Last time I talked to him the border was closed so he couldn’t take receipt of cameras from the US.

If you do decide on a Noblex and need to have a source for service, message me and I can probably put you in contact with him.

ant! · Mar 9, 2023

Great, thanks!

ant! · Mar 13, 2023

I did it! Just bought a freshly CLA'd Praktina FX with a Tessar 50/2.8 (which means I should open a new thread for a few more lens recommendations if I like it, but shipping from Slovakia to Canada should take a bit).

And of course this doesn't mean I might not still get a Noblex or a folder or whatever when one comes my way.

Thanks for this interesting input everyone!

Which camera from Dresden to get

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