Which 35mm Summicron to Keep? - Ver 1 or 2 + some questions

I have two 35mm summicrons in my possession now - a Type 2 German Summicron that I just bought from KEH. The other is a Type 1 Canadian Summicron w/ googles thats on loan from a local camera shop. Both have pros & cons for me and I can't decide which one to keep and which to send back.

I wasn't prepared with how small the v2 would be. Was expecting it to be around the same size as my 50mm v4 Summicron but its *a lot* smaller. I'm 6'7" and have huge gorilla hands, so its difficult for me to handle. My biggest issue with it though is the little nub/lever used to adjust in the aperture. It's so small and there is NOTHING else to grip on to & change the aperture with. First I'll focus, then my hand will be fumbling around the lens searching for that little aperture lever. Much slower to use than my 50mm, but I've only had this 35mm for a few days, so maybe it'll grow on me.

The 35mm Canadian v1 Summicron w/ goggles on loan from the camera shop is more robust & a little easier for me to handle. Especially the aperture dial. I'm not a fan of the googles though and its harder to adjust the shutter dial on my M6TTL with the googles in the way. I hear great praise about these 8 element summicrons however. And this v1 is about $140 less than what I paid for the v2. The shop owner said he'll also send it out for cleaning free of charge if I decide to buy.

I'm going to play around with both lenses over the weekend and try to make a decision. I have a few questions though that might be able to help me decide:

- Type 1 Summicrons *will not* focus properly if the goggles are removed, correct? (aside from zone focusing)

- Is there any way to modify a v2 aperture dial to make it easier to grip?

I'd guess you're using it on an M3, that's what the goggled version was made for. The later
non-goggled lens is for the later cameras.
The goggles are there to correct the viewfinder, not to focus.
I'm guessing*** the focusing helical would be the same.

***Didja notice the I dunno part?

If you have to choose between the two and you are using it on an M6 I would skip the goggled version myself. If the v1 is less than the v2 you might just want to buy it anyway and resell it. I used to have a v2/v3 (the one with the aperture tab) and it was a nice lens. Not as nice as the Zeiss Biogon f/2 I have now though. Something for you to think about...

Patrick Robert James said:

If you have to choose between the two and you are using it on an M6 I would skip the goggled version myself. If the v1 is less than the v2 you might just want to buy it anyway and resell it. I used to have a v2/v3 (the one with the aperture tab) and it was a nice lens. Not as nice as the Zeiss Biogon f/2 I have now though. Something for you to think about...

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Thanks for the advice. I was actually looking at the f/2 Biogon's before I snagged that v2 Summicron from Keh. Only negative comments I've read about the Biogon's is that they're bulky and obstruct the viewfinder a bit. After playing around with the v2 though, I'd prefer a beefier lens thats easier for me to handle.

The Biogon f/2 really blows away the v2/v3 Summicrons in your opinion then?

Norkusa said:

Thanks for the advice. I was actually looking at the f/2 Biogon's before I snagged that v2 Summicron from Keh. Only negative comments I've read about the Biogon's is that they're bulky and obstruct the viewfinder a bit. After playing around with the v2 though, I'd prefer a beefier lens thats easier for me to handle.

The Biogon f/2 really blows away the v2/v3 Summicrons in your opinion then?

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It depends what you are looking for so there is no right or wrong answer. If you want the old school feel of the Summicrons then go for one of those. If you want something modern, and pretty much one of the best lenses ever made, then go for the Biogon.

seems to me you answered your own question -- use the one that is easier to use. Optically, they're the same. The viewfinder with the goggled version will show you the taking image in the 50mm frame, because that's what the goggles do, but it's still showing you what the 35mm lens is shooting.

So use the lens that is easier to use. The end images will be identical unless you are going to put your camera on an optical bench, or something.

Using the goggled lens on an M6 with a lower magnification(.72) finder won't give the same view as the M3(90).
Doesn't it reduce image size to use the 50mm view on the M3?

John Koehrer said:

Using the goggled lens on an M6 with a lower magnification(.72) finder won't give the same view as the M3(90).

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This is what I thought while using it on my M6. So the framelines I saw in the viewfinder aren't correct? They looked more like 50mm.

I think(!?) you're seeing the 50mm frame but with a slightly smaller image because of the smaller magnification.
Compare the two, the size of the VF image/subject should be different/

Keep the newer one, set it at f11 and hyper-focal. No need to mess with aperture after than for 80% of your shots I would suspect.

I didn't have problems with goggled Summaron on M4-2 (it was using 50mm frameline). I forgot what was the trick with goggles. If I remember correct they are removable if lens focus is locked to infinity. It might be possible to vandalize it, but it is sin.
One of the reasons I sold it, was due to the bulk. Maybe it isn't problem for OP.
I looked at many pictures from 35mm Cron, v1 and asph are the lenses with most pronounced character. ASPH seems to be clinically sharp with most noticeable separation on object in focus and v1 is nicely sharp and classy. I only looked at bw flim.
I get none of 35 Summicron, they went up in price, but brand new Summarit 35 2.5 at the price lower than v2 Cron. Summarit 35 2.5 is larger comparing to 35 Cron. Aperture ring is close to focus ring, but I'm using only focus tab and so far the shift of the aperture didn't happened as often as it was with Color Skopar 35 2.5.

summicron1 said:

Optically, they're the same. The viewfinder with the goggled version will show you the taking image in the 50mm frame, because that's what the goggles do, but it's still showing you what the 35mm lens is shooting.

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Do does this mean removing the googles will not have any affect focusing through the viewfinder? Almost everything I've read says otherwise but I've also read the opposite, so I don't know what to believe.

I just got my test roll back today (half shot with the goggled v1, the other half with the v2). I like the images taken with the v1 much more. They look much more saturated and dreamy than the v2. Think I'm going to return the v2 and get the v1 but the goggle-less focusing is the only thing holding me back.

Once and for all, and for certain: Removing the goggles from the goggled Summicron 35/2 will change the relationship between the lens cam and the RF follower in the camera. In other words, the focussing will be off, quite a bit. Technically, the lens cam can be machined to work correctly, but it is (1) ethically bad to destroy a lens that an M3 users would want/need, and (2) very expensive for the very finicky and precise custom machining that would likely exceed the value of the lens by a lot.

I fully understand your appreciation of the v1 summicron. I have a goggled summaron (35/2.8), which is almost identical in performance, and I love it too. And yes, mine is goggled which means I too struggle with the clunky handling on my M2 and M9 (works correctly on my M3, but I still don't like the clunky goggles). The images from these lenses are truly different and more appealing (to me anyway) than most other 35mm lenses for M cameras. I use it exclusively for B+W, but others really like the colors they get with these lenses.

So it sounds like we are in the same boat...... Either live with the goggled lens, or find a non-goggled version. I wish us both luck!

Another vote for Biogon 35/2 for best all-rounder or Voigtlander 35/2.5 for compactness. They are both top notch optics on film.

remove the goggles and you can not use the camera RF and it brings up 50 mm frame lines with & without goggles. Advantage of using as is will be more will be included within the 50 lines which is an advantage if you wear glasses.

Original had an interesting "look" to it. You either like it or you do not. Later versions look more and more modern.

Consider the Summaron 2.8/35 without goggles. Exactly the same size/haptics as the v1 Summicron, very similar in optical properties (apart from f2 missing) and more affordable (well it depends on the price you were quoted for the goggled v1 summicron). On the other hand, I cannot quite follow your conclusion that the Summicron v1 gives you more saturated colors than the v2. The opposite should be true, as the versions from v2 on were optimized for contrast with color photography in mind. Maybe the v2 is not clean or the light changed between the shots giving different results?