Which 35mm SLR to buy?

Magpie · Oct 28, 2006

Hi All,

After 30 years of photography I am at the point where I normally use MF and LF gear with some old folders, pinholes etc for the occasional change.

I am going to be doing a part time course in darkroom at a local college next year and they require students to use a 35mm SLR.

I got rid of my 35mm gear a few years ago (it was Nikon) and will buy a camera to use on this course. As I am not locked into any system (nothing to match) I thought I would seek suggestions as to what I should get.

The camera will need to be:
1. Manual.
2. An SLR.
3. Economical to buy.
4. Have a good range of lenses.
5. Ideally with a built in light meter.
6. Easily focused by someone with glasses, or have diopta available.

Any ideas or thoughts? I probably will keep the camera after the course so resale value is not a big issue - upfront cost is.

Regards

Brendan

Andy K · Oct 28, 2006

I would recommend the Voigtlander Bessaflex TM. All metal, all manual, built in meter, top speed of 1/2000s, takes any M42 screw mount lens (which gives a huge selection of lenses from various manufacturers) and very cheap.

copake_ham · Oct 28, 2006

Nikon F3HP

André E.C. · Oct 28, 2006

Nikon F2!

Cheers

André

DBP · Oct 28, 2006

Older 35mm SLRs are ridiculously cheap, especially the Kmount and screw-mount non-Pentax ones. Or, if you want something newer, Cosina makes a fairly straightforward SLR with depth of field preview in Nikon Mount (FM-10), screw-mount (mentioned in the prior post), and K-mount. Be sure to get a 50mm lens for it, as the standard issue 35-70 zoom is pretty bad.

Konical · Oct 28, 2006

Good Evening, Brendan,

No doubt you have anticipated a plethora of responses, with everyone advocating his/her own favorite(s). I'm partial to the Olympus system because of it's compactness, reliability, availability, etc., but I don't think any one particular system is head and shoulders above the rest.

Konical

thebanana · Oct 28, 2006

By the time this is over, you'll be sorry you asked the question

Tom Hoskinson · Oct 28, 2006

Andy K said:
I would recommend the Voigtlander Bessaflex TM. All metal, all manual, built in meter, top speed of 1/2000s, takes any M42 screw mount lens (which gives a huge selection of lenses from various manufacturers) and very cheap.

Another vote for the Voigtlander Bessaflex. I bought one of these early in 2006 and I like it very much. It uses all of my M42 screw mount lenses with no problems. In addition Cosina/Voigtlander make an excellent selection of modern lenses that are available in the M42 mount. I recently purchased the C/V 125mm Apo Lanthar for my Bessaflex. It is a superb Macro lens!

Pinholemaster · Oct 28, 2006

Pentax K-1000

or

Nikon FM2

celluloidpropaganda · Oct 28, 2006

Manual, period, or simply 'capable of being used fully manual'?

If the latter, the Canon EOS Elan 7 (or 7e)(EOS 30 or something like that outside of the US) is a great, small, quiet autofocus SLR.

gchpaco · Oct 28, 2006

My initial reaction to this is to suggest going either Nikon, Pentax, or Olympus: Nikon because the lenses are high quality, easy to find used, and there are a vast collection of high quality bodies out there; Pentax for essentially similar reasons, plus absolute cross system compatibility (as opposed to the non-AI/AI and chipped/not-chipped subtle Nikon incompatibilities); Olympus because the body design is really neat.

Honorable mention goes to the Canon FD, which is easy to find and has a bunch of pretty good bodies. The reason I don't suggest it right up front is that the older FD bayonet mount seems to inhibit fast lens changing and in my experience manual exposure is somewhat more annoying than it could be--the AE-1 in particular will not tell you what shutter speed you have chosen from within the viewfinder, which was obnoxious when the meter on mine died. Probably if you get an A-1 or an F-1n this won't be as much of an issue. The older Minolta bodies have a similar issue (my X-700 is a dandy little camera that will not under any circumstances tell you what manual speed you have actually chosen to use, only what it thinks you should be using).

I personally am heavily invested in Nikons, although I have a pair of FD bodies. The Olympus bodies are really pretty and elegant and yet too small for my hands, a problem I have with some of the smaller Nikons, too.

If you do go for an "obsolete" mount like the Olympus or Canon FD, be aware that most of the bodies you'll be able to get your hands on will be very very old by modern standards, and you may have to have them cleaned and adjusted before they'll perform well. I have to put up with this with my medium format cameras all the time.

If you do go Nikon, I have an F3HP, an FA, an FM3a and an F100; of the lot of them I wish I could get the F3 with the FM3a's meter design and shutter (and on/off switch, damn that little lever!). Ironically the only one I've had any real problem with has been the F100, which I think was because of massive abuse from the previous owner, and even then it was only a couple small things; they've all been reliable for me otherwise. Hard to go too far wrong with any of them.

JBrunner · Oct 28, 2006

I would recommend the Canon AE1 Program if you can find one in good shape for a few reasons.

First of all, is that you can shoot it fully manual, meeting the requirements of your class, but you also have shutter and aperture modes, as well as full program modes, making it very versatile from fully manual camera, to basically a robust P&S when you are just after a snap.

The second reason is that because the FD mount is no longer current, there is a ton of fantastic SC glass available at great prices. Many times sellers have no idea that SC means anything, as the camera belonged to mom or dad or grandpa. The regular 28mm is no slouch either, and can be had for less than $50. You also get the option to mount the legendary 85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. portrait lens.

Shawn Dougherty · Oct 28, 2006

I recomend a Pentax K2. Cheap, easy to find, manual, shutter speeds go down to 8seconds before you must use bulb, MIRROR LOCKUP, built like a tank, built in meter. I've found the Pentax M series prime lenses to be affordable, flare resistant, contrasty, sharp and well built. I own the 28f3.5, 50f1.7, 135f3.5 and 200f4. You can put this outfit together quite inexpensively and I'd say it rivals any 35mm outfit at any money when it comes down to image quality. Additionaly, if you decide you need a digital slr the lenses are compatible with the Pentax DSLRs though features are limited. Good luck. Best. Shawn

Magpie · Oct 29, 2006

thebanana said:
By the time this is over, you'll be sorry you asked the question

Possibly, however it is giving me a good idea of what is out there and a direction to check.

Thanks to all so far.

Brendan

eric · Oct 29, 2006

Konica T3 or T2
Built like a tank. Greg Weber in Nebraska is THE guy to fix them. Underated optics. Low key when walking around (nobody to snub you and say "I've got a blah blah blah camera"). The 85mm prime is on par with the other guys. 35mm and 24mm really awesome. I use my T3 and 21mm lens all the time. Huge but feels solid when I'm walking about.

Dean Williams · Oct 29, 2006

It sounds like it will be hard to beat a screw mount body, for what you need. If you ever want more lenses than the required 50mm, they are sure enough plentiful.

For what it's worth, I use mainly Nikon when I'm shooting an SLR, but I still have a Pentax Spotmatic and Fujica ST701 that I shoot now and then. Just can't seem to let go of them. The Fujica has a brighter finder, and works well for me, being an eyeglass wearer, too.

Mike Kennedy · Oct 29, 2006

Maybe you should post an add in the classified section of your local news paper. "Wanted: Full manual camera. Nikon,Pentax etc. etc."
My local camera shop suggested that to me when I was looking for a better enlarger. I got 18 replies on the first run of my "free" add. Yes,many papers allow you to run a free add for a few days.
It would give you a chance to "kick the tires" so to speak. Check out the shooter before any cash changes hands ie: ebay.

I just love my Nikon's.Picked up 2 beauties from fellow APUGers. Black FE and silver FE2.

Good Luck
Mike

oscroft · Oct 29, 2006

Hi Brendan,

My personal favourite SLRs are the Olympus OM range, and they go pretty cheaply on eBay these days. The Zuiko lenses are excellent - there are plenty on eBay (UK at least - I haven't checked others) and they also go for pretty low prices. If you want a manual metering camera, the OM1n (the n versions are the ones I'd suggest you should go for) is the obvious choice, but it has the disadvantage that it uses an almost unavailable (and in many places now illegal) mercury battery (I had mine modified to use SR44 batteries, but that adds extra cost). The OM2n might be a better choice (it's my favourite ever SLR - I have two of them). Although it has aperture-priority auto exposure, it also has fully manual metering just like the OM1n, and it uses SR44 batteries.

My other suggestion would be a Pentax K1000 - a simple manual metering workhorse, solidly built and used by generations of photography students. The Pentax K lenses are pretty good, and using the K bayonet mount it also opens up the possibility of many other makes of K mount lenses. Compared to smaller more modern SLRs though (like the OMs), it is a bit big and chunky, but it still actually feels fine in my (quite small) hands. The other Pentax K bodies are also pretty good, but the K1000 is the only one I've actually used.

I've had a Nikon F3 in my time too, which I sold quite some time ago. I liked it a lot, but as most of my photography is travel related, the lighter and more compact OM system is better for me. And Zuiko lenses are also cheaper than Nikkor equivalents, comparable in quality (in my opinion at least) and smaller and more readily available - buying the equivalent of my Zuiko range in Nikkors would have cost me a lot more money.

It's interesting to see a couple of people recommending a Bessaflex. I've never had my hands on one so I can't offer an opinion, but if I was starting again I'd seriously consider one myself - I'd be thinking of all those nice Takumar lenses our there that it would take (I still have a couple myself from earlier days).

Hope this helps,
Alan

snegron · Oct 29, 2006

I guess it would depend on how much you really want to spend. A Nikon FM or FM2 with any Nikon lens might be a good choice. They have basic, center weight metering and if you want to go totally manual just remove the batteries. The cameras will still work (except for the meter) without batteries. Old Nikon manual focus lenses are sharp and not too expensive. Good luck with your choice!

paul ewins · Oct 29, 2006

From the Pentax range the sensible (cheap) choices are Spotmatic, KX or MX. They are all fully mechanical with battery for the meter only. Speeds are 1- 1/1000. The viewfinders are large and bright and slip on diopter correctors were available (but may be a little hard to find).

The screwmount lenses for the Spotmatic are generally dirt cheap and with a little patience you should be able to get a working Spotty with 50/1.4 lens from under AUD$100. A black one will cost more. Any screwmount lens will work but the ones to get are the Super-Multi-Coated Takumar or the SMC Takumar. I think the Spotmatics all took 1.35v Mercury batteries which may be a little harder to find, but are still available. I think that the last Spotmatics (SP & SPII perhaps?) had full-aperture metering if you had the right lenses. Otherwise it was stopdown to meter.

Forget the K1000, they are overpriced due to years of being recommended as the "perfect student camera". For about the same money you can get a KX which has DOF stopdown and aperture info in the viewfinder. Otherwise it is the same internals as the KM & K1000 which in turn were carried over from the last Spotmatics. They all have a match needle meter which some people prefer.

The MX has the same features as the KX but in a smaller package. The metering system uses LEDs which is easier in low-light but may not be as good as a needle in very bright light. All MXs were capable of taking a winder or motordrive, databack & bulk film back. They had interchangeable focussing screens and the LX screens will also work in the MX.

You should be able to get a KX or MX with lens for under AUD$200. A black one will cost more. The lenses are still quite cheap, expecially the more compact M-series.

These cameras are all in the 20-30 year old range so anything you buy would benefit from a CLA. This should sort out the usual age-related problems like deteriorated foam seals. The KX and Spotmatic are built like tanks but the MX is still all metal and quite robust. The choice will probably have more to do with ergonomics (needle vs LED, large vs small).

Uncle Bill · Oct 29, 2006

Weighing in with my two cents, I would look for a Nikon F2 which is a tank and the Pentax Spotmatic F for the Takumar screwmount lenses. Both have really good optics.

Bill

Paul Sorensen · Oct 29, 2006

JBrunner said:
I would recommend the Canon AE1 Program if you can find one in good shape for a few reasons.

I agree that the prices on the glass are better than Nikon, but my students have mostly had problems with the AE1's and AE1 Program's rather strange manual metering system. With the AE1, you have to set you shutter speed and read inside the camera what aperture to set your lens at. You then need to pull your eye away from the camera and set the lens to the correct aperture.

The Nikon FE2 FM2, and F3 have a more traditional match needle or LED system and also show you the aperture in the viewfinder, which can speed things up a great deal. (Actually, for shooting manual, I prefer the FE2 for its needle metering over both the FM2 and F3) I have never had a student who felt comfortable with using the AE1 in manual and all of them so far have just given up and used one of the auto settings. I think that the F1 would be awesome, but they are more than the AE1 cameras by quite a bit.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Oct 29, 2006

paul ewins said:
I think the Spotmatics all took 1.35v Mercury batteries which may be a little harder to find, but are still available. I think that the last Spotmatics (SP & SPII perhaps?) had full-aperture metering if you had the right lenses. Otherwise it was stopdown to meter.

Spotmatic worked with 1.3v mercury batteries (PX625 I think) but there is a modern equivalent one can easily find in photo stores. A particularity of the metering circuit is that by some wizardry I am not qualified to explain, the actual voltage of the battery is more or less irrelevant, and will not biase the meter. (Google, help me!)

There were only two models of Spotmatics that allowed for open-aperture metering, the Spotmatic F (fully manual) and the Electro-Spotmatic series (ES and ES II; both with electronic shutter and aperture-priority automation). The SP and SP II are the original models, and use stopped-down metering.

MattKing · Oct 29, 2006

OM 20

I have a full range of Olympus OM system bodies and heartily recommend them. Included in my collection are two OMG bodies (OM 20 in Europe and, I think, Australia). They offer both Manual and automatic exposure, are light, use modern batteries and perform well.

Sometimes, I'll just take out an OMG. Other times, the OMG is a great backup for an OMn or OM2n.

I don't wear glasses when photographing, but I believe that the Olympius diopters fit all of the OM bodies.

Here is a link to a current Australian E-bay listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/OLYMPUS-OM20-OM-20-28-70mm-LENS-FLASH-INSTRUCTIONS-CASE_W0QQitemZ130040708233QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here is a link to a site with more information about the Olympus OM system than you most likely will ever want to know. Click first on the OM System link, then on the Camera Body Group link, and then click on the link for the OM20/OMG. In addition to reading what's there, you can scroll to the bottom and find a link to the downloadable manual.

http://vanveluwen.nl/eSIF/

Matt

3Dfan · Oct 29, 2006

If price is the main concern, the vivitar v3800n is the cheapest I've seen on a new, all manual 35mm slr. It also seemed to get decent reviews on amazon.com and online forums when I was contemplating getting one for myself.

Which 35mm SLR to buy?

Magpie

Andy K

copake_ham

André E.C.

DBP

Konical

thebanana

Tom Hoskinson

Pinholemaster

celluloidpropaganda

gchpaco

JBrunner

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Shawn Dougherty

Magpie

eric

Dean Williams

Mike Kennedy

oscroft

snegron

paul ewins

Uncle Bill

Paul Sorensen

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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