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Which 35 mm BW film for ISO 800 ?

Matus Kalisky

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Sep 29, 2006
Messages
630
Location
Aalen, Germa
Format
Multi Format
Hello,

I am looking for film/developer combination that would give me effective ISO 800 with reasonable shadow detail and not too large grain. I would like to avoid pepper-like grain too.

Would you propose to take 400 ISO film and push it or you go the other way round with ISO 1600 and ISO 3200 films?

Up to now I have not been pushing BW film. I shoot mostly Ilford FP4+, Delta 100 & 400, but I am willing to try new stuff. For the developers I have and use Pyrocat HD (supposedly not great for pushing) and Ilford Ilfotec DD-X, but again, willing to try whatever could work.

So - what do you use to get there? Please share also details about your development procedure (agitation, time, temperature, etc ...)

Looking forward to your answers. thanks.
 
Films like TMAX 3200, Delta 3200, and Neopan 1600 have true speeds of ISO 800, 1000, and 640 respectively. What makes them different is that they are designed with a lower contrast so when they are pushed to the speeds their names imply you still get excellent results. Any one of these films would be a good choice if all you want is ISO 800, you just won't be pushing them. Check the datasheets for any one of the films mentioned for developing times.
 
DD-X should be a great developer for pushing. It tends to increase rated film speed, while Pyrocat-HD usually loses film speed. I would second that you use Delta 3200 though. It's a great film available in both 35mm and 120 sizes.
 
Like the previous post, go with T-Max 3200 at 800. Good film at that speed.

Jeff
 
400 speed films now are so good, and developer choices so great too (I second DD-X for pushing, and I've heard TMax developer is also great) that I'd urge going that route.

1 stop is nothing for films now...especially the T-grain (or the Delta Ilford equivalent) films. I've had first-hand experience with TMY and Ilford Delta 400 -- really impressive results.
 
HP5+ or Tri-X in Xtol would be tough to beat at that speed if you like the look of classic films.
 
As much as I like TMZ, if you want fine grain, I might say don't use it. You might be better off with TMY or Tri-X pushed to 800. Use a speed enhancing developer like XTOL or DD-X and hopefully you'll sacrifice a minimum of shadow detail.

TMY and Tri-X both look pretty good at 800 in XTOL 1:1. TMY will have finer grain.

TMZ at 800 is a great film too, but again, the grain will be larger than from the other two. Also, though I read it a lot online, nothing I've seen from TMZ tells me that it is a low contrast film. From my tests, TMZ shot at 800 and developed in XTOL had roughly the same contrast as TMY and Tri-X shot at 400 - they all printed on at the same grade. This agrees with Kodak's contrast index data in the XTOL tech pub.
 
HP5+ developed in D76 1+1 works fine for me when pushed to 800 ISO.
 
Thanks for all your replies.

So I guess I will give the Delta 400 @ 800 with DD-X a try. According to massive development chart the developing time for 20 degrees Celsius for about 10.5 minutes. I guess that rather continuos agitation is meant per default. As I am doing inverse agitation should I increase the time if I agitate every minute?

Actually - I did shoot one roll of "Adox Pan 400 First Coating" at 800, but after asking directly Adox for development they said that the "First coating" is not really suitable for pushing (what should not be the case with the final product) Anyhow I was told that the pushing factor is about 1.333 per one stop. I have few more rolls, but I probably will not be pushing it ..
 
Delta 400 @ 800 in DD-X is 10:30 @20C with 4 inversions at the start of every minute, NOT continuous agitation. If you do continuous then you should reduce the time to 9:00 or so.
 
An effective speed of 800 is within the latitude of most 400 speed films.

Low pH phenidone (or its derivatives) developers such as Microphen or Acufine will give an effective speed increase of 1/3 to 2/3 stop. This is about all you really get from "speed increasing" developers.
 
how about Tri-X at 800 developed in Diafine?
 
Just a short update - I just developed the Delta 400 (exposed at 800 during the wedding) and got some very reasonable looking negatives. The grain seems very small.

I used DD-X (1:4) for 10 minutes at about 21 degrees. 4 inversions every minute.

I will post some samples once I get the film scanned.

Thanks for your advices.
 
I've recently used Delta 400 120-format at 800 and 1600 and found it worked very well too, 10 minutes for 800, 13 minutes for 1600.
 
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