Where is Supra Endura?

2F/2F · Oct 21, 2009

In reading through this thread, I am confused about something. I thought that Ultra Endura had been gone in sheet sizes for a few years now (and that Portra Endura was gone entirely). I certainly stocked up on both of them a few years ago, and never see them any more.

Fuji Type P is an OK alternative.

I still prefer Kodak RA paper, however. Always have, always will. This is extremely sad news, but without Portra and Ultra, Kodak's line of one RA sheet paper (instead of three, which I grew accustomed to) allows less control than Fuji's two-paper line, which I used to think was too little variety. Now Fuji does not have their paper either....so we are left with what? No RA sheet paper whatsoever?

perkeleellinen · Oct 21, 2009

Hopefully someone in the US will start cutting and boxing up Fuji CA like what's about to start happening here in the UK.

danzyc · Oct 21, 2009

this is the reply to kodak :

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us with your concern regarding the availability of Kodak Professional Supra Endura Paper for your optical printing needs.
Although many of our roll stock of Kodak Professional Supra Endura Paper has transitioned to Kodak Professional Supra Endura VC Paper, we continue to offer the Kodak Professional Supra Endura Paper in sheet sizes through most dealers of Kodak Professional products. If the dealer does not have the item in stock, just give them the catalog number and ask them to place an order for you.
Please let us know if we may be of further assistance with this or other of our Kodak Professional products.

Regards,
Kodak Technical Support

it seems to be that they will discontinue only supra endura on roll and the sheet will be avaiable

frotog · Oct 21, 2009

2F/2F said:
Fuji Type P is an OK alternative.

No type P, just digitally optimized PD.

boo_with_camera · Oct 21, 2009

Hi danzyc,
I've received the same reply, so it seems really that Supra Endura will continue to live in sheets...

The strange thing is that the discontinuance note didn't specify what format would be discontinued... Who knows?:confused:

perkeleellinen · Oct 21, 2009

I also got that email.

Is Fuji Type MP the alternative?

pentaxuser · Oct 21, 2009

Here's my replyear Mike,

Thank you for contacting us with your concern regarding the availability of Kodak Professional Supra Endura Paper for your optical printing needs.

Although many of our roll stock of Kodak Professional Supra Endura Paper has transitioned to Kodak Professional Supra Endura VC Paper, we continue to offer the Kodak Professional Supra Endura Paper in sheet sizes through most dealers of Kodak Professional products. If the dealer does not have the item in stock, just give them the catalog number and ask them to place an order for you.

Please let us know if we may be of further assistance with this or other of our Kodak Professional products.

Regards,

Kodak Technical Support

As you will see it is exactly the same reply as danzyc got. It doesn't really( deliberately so, IMO) answer my e-mail where I asked Kodak to review its decision. I was not repaet not inquiring about the current availability of Supra! It could be mean all things to all people and I suspect this is deliberate. It simply had to say in very plain language that current Supra will continue to be available for analogue printers but the language is far from plain.

If its objective was to allow different readers to react differently in interpreting the message's meaning then it has succeeded as danzyc believes that supra endura in sheet will continue to be available. I take the opposite view. This has deliberately not answered my e-mail and at best is a stalling tactic, hopefully because Kodak hasn't made up its mind and is keeping its options open but it lacks openess. In the U.K we say it consists of weasely words designed to leave the questioner wondering if he got an answer to his question and if so what it was.

I had made a number of points in my e-mail about the quality of Supra and Kodak's opportunity to step into the RA4 sheet market left vacant by Fuji but there is no attempt to engage these points.

Quite frankly someone ( there may be dozens of them) is/ are sitting at Kodak simply pressing a button which churns out this set reply.

I am by nature a little cynical about human behaviour as well as being a glass half empty rather than half full sort of person. Currently my glass is definitely half full and I see a future where it becomes completely empty.

No prizes for guessing I have a bad feeling in my bones on the likely future for Supra.

pentaxuser

Matt5791 · Oct 21, 2009

I love Kodak products, and I've been enjoying selling them. But I think Kodak has the most appalling communication skills I have ever encountered.

Firstly, press announcements always seem bungled (lots of people in the UK think Kodak stopped making film completely after the Kodakchrome announcement, and, a couple of years ago the announcement about APS had the same effect - even though Kodak infact still seems to be making APS) and, as a first class example, this case of Supra Endura - nobody really knows what the situation is and we are all here guessing and wondering and coming to our own conclusions. The result is mass abandonment of customers to Fuji (when it reappears) or digital because of the uncertainty. It is a crazy situation.

I think part of the problem is, in Europe, (don't know about the rest of the world) Kodak does not distribute anything itself, but via large scale distributors - for example, Tetenal is a Kodak distributor to the likes of the retailers who the end customer buys off. Whilst I can understand the reasoning behind this, it means there is no contact between the end re-seller (who deals face to face with the consumer) and Kodak themselves. Views and concerns of the re-seller either never reach those decision makers at Kodak or by the time it gets there it's third or fourth hand.

Matt

frotog · Oct 21, 2009

The obfuscation of the forum letter response is deliberate. Kodak doesn't want their retailers holding the bag when their customers find out the paper is no longer being produced and so move to another co.'s product consequently leaving lots of Kodak product to go deadstock. It's a repeat pattern. Happens everytime they "transition".

Photo Engineer · Oct 21, 2009

Kodak Edge paper is listed here:

http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/acrobat/en/business/retailPhoto/products/papers/e7020.pdf

It is a cut sheet paper that may substitute nicely for Supra Endura.

PE

Ben 4 · Oct 21, 2009

As I just said in the other Color Photography thread, I'd be happy to give Edge a try if I could find it!

--Ben

2F/2F · Oct 21, 2009

frotog said:
No type P, just digitally optimized PD.

Last time I got Fuji paper (when Kodak had discontinued their 20x24 paper, which they have since brought back), it was Type PD. It printed just fine. That is the paper I was talking about. Just forgot it was called PD instead of P. I asked for Type P at Freestyle and they gave me the Type PD instead, as they did not have Type P.

ajuk · Oct 23, 2009

VC paper, is that variable contrast?

ajuk · Oct 24, 2009

Oh right I thought maybe there would be a colour VC paper controlled by some sort of chemical means during development.

Bob-D659 · Oct 25, 2009

You can vary the contrast some, by adding sodium sulfite? to the dev. There is a post somewhere very recently by PE stating the amount to add.

Photo Engineer · Oct 25, 2009

A small amount of Sodium Sulfite will lower contrast and dmax, while adding hydrogen peroxide will increase contrast. These both shift color balance and speed.

PE

paul_c5x4 · Oct 25, 2009

Ben 4 said:
As I just said in the other Color Photography thread, I'd be happy to give Edge a try if I could find it!

Ben - Send me a PM with your address and I'll cut a few sheets off one of the rolls I've got sitting here. Don't expect a reply straight away as I'll be out of town for a few days.

J Rollinger · Oct 25, 2009

Does anyone know how to date Supra Endura paper? I have almost 4 rolls of 5x577 and dont know the expiration date.

Thanks!

Photo Engineer · Oct 25, 2009

If you call the Kodak toll free #, they will gladly tell you.

PE

J Rollinger · Oct 25, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
If you call the Kodak toll free #, they will gladly tell you.

PE

I tried that the other day and the rep said my code numbers dont make sense , so he could not date the paper for me.

Photo Engineer · Nov 3, 2009

There is the alternative Edge paper in sheets if still made, and the other Kodak papers in sheets that are still available.

I do wish it were otherwise though.

PE

Photo Engineer · Nov 3, 2009

After I posted the above I was thinking of a recent conversation with a friend. He had a store near us and one clear across town. Recently, he closed the nearer store and I was forced to go to the main store about 20 miles away. I asked him what happened, as the nearer store was doing well.

He said that he was competing with himself. In these times, he had 2 rents to pay and 2 staffs to maintain and even though the second store near us was doing well, it was still effectively diluting his effort.

Applying this to the Endura, Kodak wants to sell digital printers and ink! They want to have customers use sheets of paper to make those digital prints. If this is their thinking, the cut sheet Endura and other cut sheet papers are in direct competition with their own digital print products. So, make no more sheet Endura and "force" the issue with the customers. Make them either go all digital or use hybrid methods of printing with film + digital.

If so, this is a very sad way to think. And, given that, I understand why they don't care about student education in the context of cut sheet analog paper.

Just some rambling thoughts.

PE

perkeleellinen · Nov 3, 2009

I'm getting confused.

In the thread about Endura on the colour forum it was claimed that Endura in sheets is not discontinued. A direct quote from Kodak was produced:

"When I told the Product Planner what was in the publication he confirmed that it was supposed to say rolls, not sheets. So we are continuing to offer the sheets for optical printing and transitioning the rolls on a stock turnover basis to Supra Endura VC."

Now in this thread another quote from Kodak:

They will not make any effort to cut the new paper in sheets. That is direct from the Kodak executives. FYI.

Are two different products being discussed here?

What is the truth about Kodak Supra Endura in sheets?

perkeleellinen · Nov 3, 2009

Thanks for the clarification. I'll hold my tongue in regards to the half-truths being told by the telephone operators.

Fuji Crystal Archive seems the way to go then.

Bob-D659 · Nov 3, 2009

In response to Photo Engineer's post,

If that's their logic, that is a good way to wipe themselves off the map, which they have been almost excelling at for the last decade anyways.

Lets see here, gloss inkjet paper can sell for over $1.00 per sheet for 8x10 size. 8x10 Endura was 40 cents, plus another 40 cents for chemistry and no ink required. If Kodak had their wits about them, a 25% price increase in cut sheet sizes would increase their bottom line and not really cut into their digital profits.

I did notice they have done this in a way already. BHPhoto and Adorama do not list 8x10 or 11x14 Endura in 100 sheet boxes anymore, just 50 sheet packages.

Where is Supra Endura?

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