Where do I start on medium format?

vpwphoto · Mar 18, 2011

I think we confused him good. Stay away from those Russian Hassy clones... they are a mess for day in day out pleasure. the Pentax 6x7 is a heavy beast (I know I will be flamed) but he want's a waist level finder anyway.

MR 2f/2f makes all the valid points.

Leaf shutter lenses... mean fill flash at will at 1/500th of a second. Focal plane shutters limit you to an impossible 1/30th.

2F/2F · Mar 18, 2011

lxdude said:
Don't forget that the SQ series (and the ETR series) has 35mm backs; a standard 24x36 frame and a 24x54 panoramic.

I did not know this!

So...there is your camera. Bronica SQ. It meets all the requirements.

CGW · Mar 18, 2011

Anyone actually priced those SQ 35mm pano backs or actually found one???

film_man · Mar 18, 2011

postalman said:
I'm already finding situations where I don't want to take my 1Ds out because the weight and bulk is a hassle to carry around all day,

Bear in mind that a 1Ds with a 50/1.4 weighs roughly just about the same as a Bronica SQB with a 80/2.8 (50/1.4 equivalent) or an equivalent Hasselblad kit or pretty much every other medium format SLR this side of 6x7. If you really want lighter than that, either go for a TLR, a folder or one of the rangefinders.

lxdude · Mar 18, 2011

CGW said:
Anyone actually priced those SQ 35mm pano backs or actually found one???

KEH, right now, has a couple of 135N (24x36) backs for $99 BGN & $149 for EX+. They have a 135-i N (later version) for $179 EX.

To answer the question, they have a 135W (pano) EX+, $254.

Not cheap, but bear in mind that if you sell later you can recover most or all of that.

2F/2F · Mar 18, 2011

As I wrote above, I think such backs are almost totally unnecessary, but that is what the OP wants. And I would venture to guess that the Hassy equivalent is more expensive.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 18, 2011

My first medium format camera was a Pearl River. It's not a bad camera. It had a mask so I could shoot 6x4.5 also. It doesn't have automatic film advancing. You have to use the numbers on the paper backing to advance the film. Here's one on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Pearl-River-Vin...916?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a401c0f4c

It's a total knockoff of a Rollei but I paid $50 for it on Freestyle over 15 years ago. Still have it.

lxdude · Mar 18, 2011

I have a 35mm pano back for my ETR series cameras, but it really is most useful for films available only in 35mm. With Kodachrome gone, its usefulness has diminished for me, though I am using it with a bunch of BW400CN I have.

elekm · Mar 18, 2011

I think you're budget is much too low -- even though prices for used medium format gear has fallen, generally.

Lenses almost always will cost the most, particularly the German-made lenses, which often start at $500 and move up rapidly from there.

A nice Rolleiflex Automat with a set of Rolleinars can really be quite good.

However, cameras are very individual, and you should buy what feels good in your hands.

CGW · Mar 18, 2011

lxdude said:
KEH, right now, has a couple of 135N (24x36) backs for $99 BGN & $149 for EX+. They have a 135-i N (later version) for $179 EX.

To answer the question, they have a 135W (pano) EX+, $254.

Not cheap, but bear in mind that if you sell later you can recover most or all of that.

Why bother? Unless you have the even-harder-to-find masked pano focus screen, you're guessing.

lxdude · Mar 18, 2011

CGW said:
Why bother? Unless you have the even-harder-to-find masked pano focus screen, you're guessing.

It's very simple to measure and mark lines on a regular screen with a fine point Sharpie pen. I prefer that to the special screen, as it's easier to see than the scribed lines.

Pumalite · Mar 18, 2011

I have several, bt I like my latest: a Zenza Bronica with a 40, an 80 and a 200. I'm also partial to the Yashicamat for lightness.

CGW · Mar 18, 2011

lxdude said:
It's very simple to measure and mark lines on a regular screen with a fine point Sharpie pen. I prefer that to the special screen, as it's easier to see than the scribed lines.

Just any place? Right...

2F/2F · Mar 18, 2011

OP,

This argument has been had before, and you can read at least one dedicated thread about the use of 35mm in a MF camera if you search the archives. I personally do not think it is worth it to shoot 35mm in medium format cameras, for reasons I explained; namely, little or no advantage in cost, very few products that are available in 35mm only, and shooting MF then cropping gives you a lot of shift, which is an extremely useful way to manipulate your pix. However, that is what you want, and it appears between everyone who has posted in this thread, there is enough info for you to make an informed decision. We have identified a few possibilities that meet all of the criteria: Hasselblad, Bronica 6x4.5, and Bronica 6x6 are all WLF cameras that are relatively small, and have 35mm adapters. The Hassy may or may not be affordable, depending, but the others definitely are. There may be more options as well. Did Mamiya ever make a 35mm adapter for their 6x4.5 cameras?

CGW · Mar 18, 2011

OK, postalman, time to make up your own mind:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33810-REG/Mamiya_211_417_Film_Back_35mm_with.html

Mark Fisher · Mar 18, 2011

OK, I'd be contrary......I'd go with a Rolleicord V (or Va or Vb) or a Hasselblad. The reason is that they are among the best made and they hold their value. They will be fun to use and, if it doesn't work out, you can resell them for about what you bought them for. Granted the Hasselblad may be out of the range you mentioned, but better to save a bit longer and get the best. I went through, in order, a Rolleicord V, Mamiya c220, a Pentax 645 and now a 500c/m. I would have saved a lot of time and money if I simply got the Hasselbad first. I still have the Rollei, but haven't used it in awhile...too beautiful to part with!

MattKing · Mar 19, 2011

CGW said:
OK, postalman, time to make up your own mind:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33810-REG/Mamiya_211_417_Film_Back_35mm_with.html

Postalman would be disappointed by the Mamiya 645 35mm panorama back, because for "panoramas" it works like those silly point and shoot 35mm panorama cameras - it uses a dark slide with a slit cut in it, which just cuts the top and bottom off the image area, but leaves the width at 36mm:confused:.

I have a 220 back for a Mamiya RB67 that has a kludged together 35mm panoramic adapter - and you get the image right out into the sprocket holes too!

I received it in a batch of used backs, and have yet to play with it. As best as I can tell, it has no rewind function built in.

With regards to the main questions raised by Postalman:

1) with the possible exception of the preference for a 35mm panorama option, there are cameras (Hasselblad, Bronica) that meet all your criteria, except for your budget;
2) a TLR is a good place to start;
3) A Mamiya 645 with both prism and waist level finders might meet your needs, and the lens availability is excellent;
4) Don't forget Mamiya RB67 equipment - generally cheaper than RZ67 equipment;
5) Folders are useful and fun;
6) I have all of the above

postalman · Mar 19, 2011

Wow. I go to my office for a fun Saturday of marking and come back to find 3 pages of replies. You guys are stars.

As to the 35mm ants nest it appears I inadvertently kicked over, it really is a "preferred" rather than a required. I realise I can use 120 and crop for the same panoramic effect, but the 135 sprocket holes are a neat novelty (and I'm aware they're just a novelty) that I'd like to have to play with, and I wouldn't get those with any dedicated 135 back I've seen since they mask them, so having a 120 back that feeds horizontally would be nice. Having said that, if I get any 6x6 format and a simple prism I can just make it work sideways!

2F/2F, I haven't seen a Mamiya M645 before, only the later 645's that I don't really like. I'll add them to the list.

I would jump on an sq-a setup now if it wasn't for the fact that finders and 120 backs are really just overpriced. When a 220 back costs $30 and a 120 back costs $130, and a finder with no active components costs nearly twice what a body does, the simple fact is it's gouging. At least Hasselblad have the decency to be consistently expensive!

I have actually been into photography long enough to realise how ridiculous it sounds to be complaining that something photographic related is "too expensive". I didn't just fall off the back of a turnip truck

CGW · Mar 19, 2011

The old "heavy metal" Mamiya 645s are aged tanks--no interchangeable backs(just inserts)--that are, for me, just too old to bother with. You can shoot 120 film in a 220 Bronica SQ back or use a 120 insert in a 220 back.

bwrules · Mar 19, 2011

Mamiya 6 or 7, 7II.

Pumalite · Mar 19, 2011

My foursome

2F/2F · Mar 19, 2011

bwrules said:
Mamiya 6 or 7, 7II.

They have no WLF, which is the OP's very 1st criterion.

vpwphoto · Mar 19, 2011

He had so many conflicting criterium.

Based on OP criterium the RB/Rz were the only to offer WL and the possibility of Horizontal film movement.

Should have just stopped there.

2F/2F · Mar 20, 2011

vpwphoto said:
He had so many conflicting criterium.

Based on OP criterium the RB/Rz were the only to offer WL and the possibility of Horizontal film movement.

Should have just stopped there.

It was determined that the OP does not necessarily need horizontal film movement after all. He just thought initially that this was a requirement for running 35mm through the camera. A camera that can take a factory-made 35mm back will do the trick.

postalman · Mar 20, 2011

Yeah, portability >> horizontal film spool. Because I won't be in a studio (or own a car) the RB/RZ system is pretty much out. Maybe I'll look into it if I decide I love working with film and 6x6 isn't big enough for me. I was asking more if someone knows of a system that I hadn't considered that did both, but it looks like I've researched them all.

And vpwphoto, if the decision were easy I would have made it already! If only I could find a mint 500cm system for $500... *sigh*

It's looking like etrs for $360+p/h (but I really want 6x6 if it's roughly the same size camera) or sq-a for $570+p/h (which is a bit more than I want to spend).

There's a local camera fair on next weekend that I'll check out before deciding anything though.

Where do I start on medium format?

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