Where did the 18% gray card really come from?

Photo Engineer · Jun 20, 2007

Genessee Brewing is here in downtown Rochester.

PE

copake_ham · Jun 20, 2007

winger said:
Isn't Genesee made in Utica by the bewery there? Along with Utica Club and Saranac (which isn't bad). Not that their rivers are any better. (disclaimer - I grew up near Utica)

AFAIK, Utica Club* is a defunct label but the brewery is now used to make Saranac's brews. It is kind of a "brewery for hire" where you can rent it out and make beer/ale according to your own recepie.

I don't think Genny is brewed there.

*Back in the early '70's when I was at SUNY/Buffalo I remember they used to have famous "former upstaters" make ads for UC. I particularly remember the one made by Rod Serling. And then there was the slogan: "It's tough to argue over a Utica Club - 'cause they put too much love into it!"

Oh no, have dated self!

winger · Jun 20, 2007

You're right about the brewery basically being vats for hire. I think they used to do more though (like in the 70's or so). I just remember seeing signs on the side of the building for Utica Club and Genny. I think they still have brewery tours, but I've never gone on one.

copake_ham · Jun 20, 2007

winger said:
You're right about the brewery basically being vats for hire. I think they used to do more though (like in the 70's or so). I just remember seeing signs on the side of the building for Utica Club and Genny. I think they still have brewery tours, but I've never gone on one.

The brewery tradition in upstate NY is reviving a bit. I enjoy the Belgian-style ales made by Ommergang in Cooperstown. The brewery is small and modern - but the ales are very nice (strong) and Old World - they are now owned by Duval from Belgium.

When I did the tour last year I learned that for many years NYS was a major hops growing region - which was one reason why it had so many breweries. Then the hops were hit with some kind of fungus that infected the soil and the growing of hops in the US mainly shifted to Oregon. Without a local source of hops - one by one the small NY breweries began to die off with the final death knell being the "invasion" of AB and Miller, both of which "flooded" the market upstate in the late '60's early '70's to grab market share (back then I could get a six of Bud or Miller for 99 cents!).

Oh, BTW, brewers worldwide now purchase pelletized hops and "tailor" their brew for whatever style they want to emulate by mixing and matching from anywhere in the world.

Sorry for the OT excursion - guess you can tell I really drank up the info they poured for us during the Ommergang tour last Summer!

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2007

copake_ham said:
Sorry for the OT excursion - guess you can tell I really drank up the info they poured for us during the Ommergang tour last Summer!

Forget-a-bout-it ... this thread is about Rochester New York.

By the way did you know that the Rochester Airport is known as the Great Rochester International Airport?

I am still looking for the Duty-Free Shop.

Steve

markbb · Jun 21, 2007

I can confirm that the waters in the river Medway, Rochester, are 18% grey. I suspect the yanks pinched the idea from here, as they usually do.

Photo Engineer · Jun 21, 2007

Stever said:
Forget-a-bout-it ... this thread is about Rochester New York.

By the way did you know that the Rochester Airport is known as the Great Rochester International Airport?

I am still looking for the Duty-Free Shop.

Steve

Steve, thats because so many flights come and go to Canada. Rochester now is international. Either that or many Americans think that we are in a foreign country up here due to our accents and strange customs such as drinking Genny water. But I really don't know why they put the "Greater" in front of the name. We are becoming "Lesser" as Kodak vanishes.

PE

benjiboy · Jun 21, 2007

Pinholemaster said:
Gray card is 18% gray because of the discovery of two English scientists. They measured the reflectiveness of everything they could, averaged all the readings, and discovered the world is on average 18% gray. Thus all our light meters read 18% gray.

The same with color. Scientist measured the colors found through out the universe, stars, planets, interstellar gases and averaged the findings all together to discover the universe is beige.

Has nothing to do with Mr. Eastman's mother's laundry.

I think the two English scientists you refer to were Ferdinand Hurter and Vero Driffield who were nineteenth century pioneers of sensitometry ( H&D curves etc.)

copake_ham · Jun 21, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
Steve, thats because so many flights come and go to Canada. Rochester now is international. Either that or many Americans think that we are in a foreign country up here due to our accents and strange customs such as drinking Genny water. But I really don't know why they put the "Greater" in front of the name. We are becoming "Lesser" as Kodak vanishes.

PE

FWIW, any airport with some form of "international" travel, qualifies for additional Federal subsidies for FAA operations, capital support and other purposes. One famous example of how Congress makes "pork" has to do with the Wilkes-Barre International Airport in Pennsylvania.

Back in the early 1970's the area's congressman was Dan Flood. He was very powerful with many years seniority. He managed to pressure some airline or other to operate one flight a day (or week, whatever) from either Toronto or Montreal (don't remember which) to the W-B Airport. Thereby, it became an "International" airport and qualified for the additional Federal subsidies!

It's good to be the Congressman!

jeroldharter · Jun 21, 2007

Beer

I might be mistaken, but I think that the old Old Crown Brewery in Fort Wayne Indiana used to make Genesee and Genesee Cream Ale also. I miss all of the old American brands of beer, mostly for the old steel beer cans because the beer was awful. Now we have great microbreweries but no beer cans. Do they still make Knickerbocker Natural or Old Frothinslosh?

Roger Hicks · Jun 21, 2007

benjiboy said:
I think the two English scientists you refer to were Ferdinand Hurter and Vero Driffield who were nineteenth century pioneers of sensitometry ( H&D curves etc.)

Not, I think, in this case. An 18% grey is a Munsell mid-tone, the tone miost people will chose as half-way between the maximum black you can easily create and the brightest white you can easily create, with as many shades of grey in between as you like. It is absolutely nothing to do with an 'average' outdoor scene, which has a reflectance of 13-14%, as determined by Kodak scientists working about half a century after H&D.

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com, where you will, as Stever says, find a piece about grey cards)

percepts · Jun 21, 2007

40 odd posts about a coloured piece of cardboard. Very Interesting:rolleyes:

AgX · Jun 21, 2007

Coloured??

I knew they fooled me with that black `whiter shade of pale´disc...

Andy K · Jun 21, 2007

I have never used a grey card. I just meter off my own shadow then make the photo. However, living in th UK I would dispute 'the World's largest natural darkroom' title!

benjiboy · Jun 22, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
Not, I think, in this case. An 18% grey is a Munsell mid-tone, the tone miost people will chose as half-way between the maximum black you can easily create and the brightest white you can easily create, with as many shades of grey in between as you like. It is absolutely nothing to do with an 'average' outdoor scene, which has a reflectance of 13-14%, as determined by Kodak scientists working about half a century after H&D.

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com, where you will, as Stever says, find a piece about grey cards)

Thanks Roger, I've looked further into this, and you are right.

Where did the 18% gray card really come from?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency