Where did my blacks go? Scanning prints 101 needed

[zsas]

Folks - I hang out at Apug usually and am all analog but gotta scan, to upload to the Gallery and have been having a devil of a time replicating the print.

For eg, I printed the below, MGIV FB matte:

It is mute, gray, bla. The print in hand is snappy, deep charcoal blacks and crisp whites, the above is a bore....

What do I need to do?

I have a v4490 and use SilverFast as my scan software.

I scan as b/w print.

I do not want to buy Lightroom or PS, I do have Elements and Irfram if that helps....

If you want to say I can't do it w/o PS I will listen but can't I do it at the scanner level and don't do post prod (ps, elements, etc)?

Best,
Andy

 

[gmikol]

A print on matte paper may only have a DMax of 1.8 (or possibly less), which looks black to us when we're looking at the print.

The 4490 is a decent scanner, especially for reflective items. It can probably "see" a DMax in excess of 2.0, possibly as high as 2.2 or even higher. I haven't tested my scanner for reflective DMax, so I'm not sure where it tops out. So, to put it in a very simplified manner, the "blacks" in your print look "gray" to the scanner. Similarly, the whites in your print probably don't scan as complete white, either, because the paper doesn't reflect 100% of the light that hits it.

Fortunately, the fix is easy. SilverFast (as does PS Elements, and Epson Scan, too) has some sort of auto-adjust function. Not sure what it's called in different software packages, but Photoshop calls it "Auto Contrast" in the current version (CS5), and "Auto Levels" in older versions. PS Elements probably calls it one of the 2, depending on how old your version is. Basically it takes the image, finds the darkest point in the image, and shifts it to complete black. It does the same thing with the lightest parts of the image and stretches them out to complete white.

Obviously, an auto adjustment only goes so far. What you're doing is called setting the black point and the white point. Using the levels adjustment (available in both PSE and Silverfast), you can drag the black point and white point to wherever you want, and you can adjust the midpoint slider as well, to shift the midtones around a bit, if you like. In PSE, I think you can hold down the "Alt" key while you drag the sliders, and the image will change to show you what areas of the image are being "clipped" (set to pure white or black, depending on which slider you're pulling), which is another way to judge how aggressive an adjustment you're making.

Hope this helps...Good luck.

--Greg

 

[zsas]

Greg - Great info! Update I misspoke, I have a v4490 and VueScan not Silverafast, but by your reply above, I bet it can do auto contrast/levels. I think that is what I did, any advice on VueScan?

Thanks so much for the reply!
Andy

 

[jeffreyg]

Andy,

I would be inclined not to use auto adjust. I'm not familiar with VueScan (I use Silverfast) but I would think that it has similar adjustments.
You can adjust the blacks, midtones and highlights separately especially if there is a curves application in VS if not there may be a levels adjustment that you can use. I have always read to avoid "auto" adjustments if possible.

HOME PAGE

 

[jeffreyg]

Andy ,

Me again. I would get it as close as possible in the scan then tweak in Elements which would have sufficient adjustments for curves, levels, contrast and probably channels. I use PS CS4 so I'm not sure what is in your Elements but there should be ample adjustments.

 

[zsas]

Ok that is where I fall down, I don't know what it means to adjust curves/levels??

Is there a good YouTube or something that shows what all this means?

Also I tone my prints so should I really be scanning in color now I think of it?

My above was toned in gold which gives a slight cold-blue-black, which is barely noticeable, but there

When I think of dealing with all the color channels my head spins

Thaks so much for the discussion!
Andy

Edit: I found something good re VueScan, now what does it all mean for my workflow? I think I can do it all w/o Elements?!
http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc12.htm#topic9

 

[jeffreyg]

I would scan in color. Adjusting the levels is very easy. Duplicate the layer, go to adjustments "levels" and you will see a histogram. Usually the blacks are on the left and whites on the right. If there is space on the left before you get to vertical lines, as you move the slider from left to right you will see the blacks increase and midtones get darker. If you do the same from the right you will be seeing the whites come up and midtones lighter. Then you can adjust the midtones. Be sure to have "preview" checked. This way you can see a difference in the contrast as well although there should be a separate adjustment "contrast and brightness" as well. Curves will also enable similar adjustments as levels but in a more delicate way. Just play with them and you will see how they work. In PS you can make and save curves then load them and apply as you wish. I'm not sure if Elements will do that. You can change your image from color to monotone by desaturating or changing the mode to grayscale.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[zsas]

Outstanding info! Will give it a try, and post results!

I found something good re VueScan, I think I can do it all you describe above w/o Elements?!
Histograms

 

[gmikol]

Greg - Great info! Update I misspoke, I have a v4490 and VueScan not Silverafast, but by your reply above, I bet it can do auto contrast/levels. I think that is what I did, any advice on VueScan?

Thanks so much for the reply!
Andy

Ah...big difference between Vuescan and Silverfast in terms of user interface. I'm a big fan of Vuescan as a scanner tool, but it's image adjustment features are weak, IMO. It does have black point and white point adjustments on the "Color" tab (in advanced mode), but I find them to be non-intuitive. It does have an Auto-Levels adjustment in the top drop-down of that tab. But like I said before, Auto is a quick fix, and doesn't give you a lot (any?) control. I would think that PSE would give you more flexibility.

In that link you provided to the Vuescan documentation, the last 2 graph modes allow you to adjust levels (black and white points), and adjust the curve shape. On the curve graph, the bottom axis is "input" and the vertical axis is "output". Black is in the lower left corner. A straight diagonal line means no adjustment. So on the curve shown, the lower midtones are lightened a bit, since it's above the imaginary diagonal, and upper midtones are darkened a bit, since that part of the curve is below the imaginary diagonal. Hope that makes sense.

Ultimately, I think you can see that there are multiple ways to accomplish what you're after. Best thing for you is to play with all the different methods suggested, and find the one that makes the most sense to you and that you're most comfortable with.

--Greg

 

[pschwart]

Scanning Basics 101 - All about digital images

 

[zsas]

Folks! Thanks soooooo much for the help. Although I have no real idea how it all works and why, I have come close to the print in hand! The slight impact of the gold toner (i.e. cold blue cast) is there just a smidge since I scanned in color and pumped up the Black Point %. Who knew - not me?! I think I need to read that 101 above Philip, and just play around more. I am glad to accomplish a print scan using just the scanner (VueScan) and not have to mess with Elements. I agree it prob could be even better in Elements 9 (i.e. a little less grit/"pinholes"), but the print is now 1000% better and that might be enough for me (unless you all have much more advice)! Kudos for all of you! I have heard the APUG mods and Sean talk about the folks at DPUG having such great breadth of knowledge, and it is true! I just got my wife a Nikon D7000, so I might just be here a bit more now I know that this place is such a joy.

Any advice, thoughts, agree/dissents, welcome! Anything to further the knowledge!

Here is some tech info:
How VueScan sets up the image using Auto in Color mode:

After pumping up the black:

Orig print:

New print:

 

[gmikol]

Looks like you're on to something...

Scanning in color is the only way to preserve the tint/cast of the print.

--Greg

 

[artobest]

Great result!

 

[zsas]

Thanks!