Where did all the RA-4 Chems go?

[Jglavin]

Hi all,

I’ve had luck getting a reliable source of the Bellini RA-4 developer and blix kits from freestyle photo the past year or so, but recently I haven’t been able to find *any* RA-4 kits (arista, Bellini, unicolor etc) in stock at major (or even smaller) suppliers. It appeared that Photo warehouse had some unicolor kits in stock, but once I ordered a kit I heard from their manager that this was mistakenly listed as “in stock.” He even mentioned that they had gone from selling 10 or so kits each month to * 50 * in the past few weeks. Any ideas on what’s prompting the lack of stock / possible panic buying? At this point I’m thinking of trying my hand at homebrew RA4. Thanks

 

[koraks]

He even mentioned that they had gone from selling 10 or so kits each month to * 50 * in the past few weeks.

That's odd for sure. Interesting. He didn't comment on any reasons why this might be happening?

 

[Jglavin]

He didn't comment on any reasons why this might be happening?

Nope, here’s the full text from the sales rep: “Yeah im not sure what happened, but we went from selling 10 kits a month to over 50 in the past few weeks. Been crazy!”

I did hear from Reddit that freestyle should be restocking arista kits in June.

 

[MattKing]

The shortage might be due to the sudden upsurge in orders.
Which could be due to coincidence, or a startup of an educational program, or someone's viral internet post, or ....
When standard volumes are as low as 10 a month, variability isn't surprising.

 

[Jglavin]

When standard volumes are as low as 10 a month, variability isn't surprising.

I agree, and I think these are all viable possibilities, but the likelihood of moving from 3ish units a week to +25 due to natural variation is very unlikely (despite the small n size if we approximate the sales numbers with a normal distribution the increase is orders and orders of magnitude beyond the mean).

I guess the scenario I’m most concerned about is that we have both a demand increase (which it seems like we do) and a supply decrease (which, if folks knew about might spur an additional demand increase and lead to a run on the market). Anyhow, here’s hoping things improve and that my 3l of solution lasts until then!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Fuji RA4 chem is avail in abundance, but not in small kits.

 

[mshchem]

Someone is trying to corner the market!

 

[MattKing]

Every time I see this thread's title, I think of...

 

[koraks]

Fuji RA4 chem is avail in abundance, but not in small kits.

Yeah, I would have expected this. Fuji can't afford to let the river run dry; it'd mean the end of their business in the US.
What's interesting is that apparently something's cooking in the amateur market. I'd like to know what that is - whether it's a sandbagging effort, or somehow the start of a revival of color printing. I'm leaning towards the former being the major effect, although I do recognize that over the past 1-2 years, there's been a bit of an increase in interest in printing color at home. I see this on an almost daily basis with questions coming in here on the forum and also through my blog.

 

[mshchem]

I wonder IF Photo Systems are going to try and produce bulk Kodak branded color print chemistry? Photo Systems has everything Kodak color negative and black and white. No sign of RA4 or E6. No real need for another E6, but RA4 yes.

I would love to get the old 5L Ektachrome processing kits, last time I bought 5L kit was like $68 (USD)

 

[BMbikerider]

Not quite what was originally asked but 'badged, version of Kodak C41 has made the shores over her but as for RA4, Adox make complete kits of 2,.5 l, Jobo have also introduced their version (and it is very good) then there is Fuji, Champion, and one or two more that I cannot remember the name of.

With my Kodak C41 instruction leaflet was also a contact E mail for the factory in the USA so I sent them an E mail asking if they had any ideas of introducing the Kodak RA4 - Silence! - not even an acknowledgement. I spoke to the supplier/distributor of the Kodak C41 kit in UK and they too had the same response from the manufacturer. You could take this two ways 1. No they are not going to or, 2. Possibly, but we don't want advertise something that may be commercially sensitive.

Then comes the supply of paper. Only Fuji (as far as I know ) is making their version. I would think that there would be room for another manufacturer to get into the market. When I started RA4 printing, there was paper made by at least 4 manufacturers:- Kodak, Fuji, Konica and Agfa. What a void they have left, but is there room in the market place for at least one other?.

 

[koraks]

Only Fuji (as far as I know ) is making their version

There's also Lucky, in China. Supply in Europe is extremely limited to the point of nonexistent, but there are also severe doubts w.r.t. the product quality and durability of the prints.

I would think that there would be room for another manufacturer to get into the market.

Not really; this is a shrinking market (YoY decline in total production and demand) and the technology is in its final stage of the life cycle. At the same time, getting into the market requires massive investments in extremely complex manufacturing systems. This combination makes it exceedingly unlikely that a new player would enter this market at this point. This is especially the case since the production assets involved are application-specific and they do not appear to be useful for making other economically attractive products.

 

[MattKing]

"Getting into the market" probably means practically re-purposing existing production by decreasing package size and opening up new, smaller user marketing channels.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Hi all,

I’ve had luck getting a reliable source of the Bellini RA-4 developer and blix kits from freestyle photo the past year or so, but recently I haven’t been able to find *any* RA-4 kits (arista, Bellini, unicolor etc) in stock at major (or even smaller) suppliers. It appeared that Photo warehouse had some unicolor kits in stock, but once I ordered a kit I heard from their manager that this was mistakenly listed as “in stock.” He even mentioned that they had gone from selling 10 or so kits each month to * 50 * in the past few weeks. Any ideas on what’s prompting the lack of stock / possible panic buying? At this point I’m thinking of trying my hand at homebrew RA4. Thanks

We are shortly coming out with a new RA-4 Kit. Our old one (monobath) will also be available in a few days again (Europe) but the new one is more stable and relaibale. And we have plans to even revive the TT room temperature kit Mono-PK. This is all in line with the market introduction of COLOR MISSION RA-4 paper.

 

[BF Photo]

Hi all,

I’ve had luck getting a reliable source of the Bellini RA-4 developer and blix kits from freestyle photo the past year or so, but recently I haven’t been able to find *any* RA-4 kits (arista, Bellini, unicolor etc) in stock at major (or even smaller) suppliers. It appeared that Photo warehouse had some unicolor kits in stock, but once I ordered a kit I heard from their manager that this was mistakenly listed as “in stock.” He even mentioned that they had gone from selling 10 or so kits each month to * 50 * in the past few weeks. Any ideas on what’s prompting the lack of stock / possible panic buying? At this point I’m thinking of trying my hand at homebrew RA4. Thanks

Hello Jglavin,

Freestyle Photo just ordered a large quantity of Bellini RA4 kits. Bellini products for amateurs are small packs of the professional products made for years by Bellini Foto. This means home and small professional users get the same top quality as professional labs. There are no concerns regarding availability. Sometimes there’s a lack of products on the market because raw materials for RA4 are not easy to buy and stock, but at Bellini we stock raw materials to produce large amounts of chemicals for professional labs, so this is not an issue for us.

 

[arturo_rs]

We are shortly coming out with a new RA-4 Kit. Our old one (monobath) will also be available in a few days again (Europe) but the new one is more stable and relaibale. And we have plans to even revive the TT room temperature kit Mono-PK. This is all in line with the market introduction of COLOR MISSION RA-4 paper.

Great news. I use the 40 litres CPRA form Fuji. A similar capacity product would be nice (and more cheap)

 

[koraks]

I use the 40 litres CPRA form Fuji.

Fuji recommended (perhaps still does) this for home, artist and small lab users. My experience so far is that it's an unfortunate choice and that their monopart products are more suitable for our use, due to better shelf life and easier mixing.

 

[arturo_rs]

Fuji recommended (perhaps still does) this for home, artist and small lab users. My experience so far is that it's an unfortunate choice and that their monopart products are more suitable for our use, due to better shelf life and easier mixing.

Generally, I mix the chemistry once or twice a month and I spend around 600ml. For every 20x30cm sheet of paper I use 100ml, then I discard it.

The 40 litre kit has about year and a half and it is in pretty good shape. I have crystal air tight bottles and I also use butane to prevent, a little, the oxidation. So...I´m searching new products. I have about 15 liters left.

Thanks to you, Koraks, I bought the CPRA (https://tinker.koraks.nl/photograph...ta-using-color-c41-and-ra4-chemistry-at-home/). The results and the price has been very good.

You recommend the monopart, to have a better shelf life. For me, the most important thing. What monopart do you use?

 

[koraks]

You recommend the monopart, to have a better shelf life. For me, the most important thing. What monopart do you use?

Yes, my apologies for the earlier CPRA recommendation; as said, this originated from Fuji but I've now concluded on the basis of my own experiences that this is not the proper recommendation for our use case at all. This illustrates how Fuji just isn't really aware of how we use this product. In particular, the fix part of the CPRA blix is very unstable and has a short shelf life.

For the developer, I've used MP90 to good effect, but all their monopart developers are of a similar stability and functional usability. Get whichever you can get your hands on; the range is big, but usually you can only get one or two of the types. Any will work fine. I see many people use MP160 and I also see that in one the recent technical bulletins, so that's probably at this moment the prime candidate. Fuji cat. no. 994345. The number relates to the recommended replenishment rate.

For the BLIX, consider EnviroPrint Bleach-Fix Replenisher 215 AC, cat no. 995746. I'm not sure if the monopart BLIX that was available some years ago still exists; I don't see it anymore in the lists. This is a pity since it was very stable even over multiple years as a concentrate in original packaging.

 

[arturo_rs]

In particular, the fix part of the CPRA blix is very unstable and has a short shelf life.

Yes, lucky for me, the bottle was almost empty.

 

[mshchem]

Not quite what was originally asked but 'badged, version of Kodak C41 has made the shores over her but as for RA4, Adox make complete kits of 2,.5 l, Jobo have also introduced their version (and it is very good) then there is Fuji, Champion, and one or two more that I cannot remember the name of.

With my Kodak C41 instruction leaflet was also a contact E mail for the factory in the USA so I sent them an E mail asking if they had any ideas of introducing the Kodak RA4 - Silence! - not even an acknowledgement. I spoke to the supplier/distributor of the Kodak C41 kit in UK and they too had the same response from the manufacturer. You could take this two ways 1. No they are not going to or, 2. Possibly, but we don't want advertise something that may be commercially sensitive.

Then comes the supply of paper. Only Fuji (as far as I know ) is making their version. I would think that there would be room for another manufacturer to get into the market. When I started RA4 printing, there was paper made by at least 4 manufacturers:- Kodak, Fuji, Konica and Agfa. What a void they have left, but is there room in the market place for at least one other?.

I think you're seeing the process C41-RA chemistry which uses a different Bleach and different fixer than the traditional C41 process. Much shorter Bleach time and slightly shorter fixer time. Not intended for printing .

The C-41RA works in minilab machines that complete a dry fully processed negative in about 7 minutes.

 

[mshchem]

Flexicolor and Ektacolor tech documents wonderful resource.

Kodak Technical Documents • 125px

 

[DREW WILEY]

Here Fuji has outright discontinued the 3-part RA4 dev, and replaced it with mono, which is in fact cheaper too. The problem is not with the price, but with the fuss of leftover chem if it doesn't all get used up in time. I only do RA4 processing several months a year at best, and in drums. It's easy enough to drop off leftover chem at our local hazmat site, but still, I don't like to waste things.

 

[mshchem]

Yes, lucky for me, the bottle was almost empty.

Any ordinary non hardening rapid fixer can be substituted in a pinch.

 

[DREW WILEY]

What is getting scary here is the now threatened 50% tariff on the EU. That would really put pain into the pricing of both RA4 paper and Fuji chem itself.