When you advance film on Hasselblad, does the effort increase towards the end of the roll?

Steven Lee · Jun 5, 2023

The title says it all. I've been using Hasselblads for a few years and currently I enjoy the Odess-serviced 503cx. When I advance the film, it requires gradually more effort towards the end of the roll, and using the small back crank to finish up takes quite a bit of effort. This has been going on with all of my backs, including those serviced by David, so it's not a back CLA issue.

Never had any problems though: no light leaks or frame spacing issues. Upon closer examination, it appears that the film gradually shifts to one side of the takeup spool, rubbing against that side with increasing friction. Even the backing paper looks more battered on one side. Now I'm wondering if that's just how it is and everyone is experiencing it, or maybe I need to pay closer attention to my film insert loading technique?

Sirius Glass · Jun 5, 2023

I have never experienced that. Give David Odess a call or send him an email and ask him for his expert opinion.

eli griggs · Jun 5, 2023

No, the film should be smooth all the way through the roll, in my experience.

Double check your camera with a waste roll of 120 and if the issue is still there, seek professional HB camera repair person's opinion/advice.

mshchem · Jun 5, 2023

I've not experienced this. I shoot Kodak TMY-2, TMX, Fujifilm and Ilford. The "it happens with multiple backs" makes me wonder if something is wrong with the camera???

BrianShaw · Jun 5, 2023

Are you loading the film correctly… under the silver tab?

Sirius Glass · Jun 5, 2023

mshchem said:
I've not experienced this. I shoot Kodak TMY-2, TMX, Fujifilm and Ilford. The "it happens with multiple backs" makes me wonder if something is wrong with the camera???

Bingo! See my post. A CLA is in his future.

mshchem · Jun 5, 2023

BrianShaw said:
Are you loading the film correctly… under the silver tab?

Oh good suggestion, I've done this before!!!

Sirius Glass · Jun 5, 2023

BrianShaw said:
Are you loading the film correctly… under the silver tab?

Also do not load the film with the black side of the paper up. Usually we only make that mistake once.

Steven Lee · Jun 6, 2023

@BrianShaw yes, under the silver tab. @Sirius Glass the camera and some of the backs were serviced by Odess. He says everything is fine and he couldn't reproduce it. I guess I'll be closely watching myself loading it next time.

mshchem · Jun 6, 2023

Steven Lee said:
@BrianShaw yes, under the silver tab. @Sirius Glass the camera and some of the backs were serviced by Odess. He says everything is fine and he couldn't reproduce it. I guess I'll be closely watching myself loading it next time.

It's easy to miss if you're used to Mamiya, Bronica etc that are simple clamshell setups like the old Graflex holders. Hasselblad designed little clamps to hold the paper in so you don't tear or snag the paper when you slide in the magazine.

Steven Lee · Jun 6, 2023

Just tried my backs on another body. The same thing... At this point I have just two theories left: either I am too sensitive to the change in the effort level, or I somehow load the film differently than you guys.

250swb · Jun 6, 2023

Fat roll? Not keeping tension on the leader as it's wound to the start position? Keep light finger pressure on the leader as you wind.

guangong · Jun 6, 2023

Until about fifteen or so years ago, I was still using backs from my 1000F days. Have never had this problem. Older or modern backs all work smoothly. The OP must be doing something odd when loading film.

Steven Lee · Jun 6, 2023

guangong said:
The OP must be doing something odd when loading film.

I think so. I watched three Youtube videos last night to see how people load A12 backs. One consistent difference between them and me is that I never leave any slack of the backing paper. In other words, I stick the paper leader into the takeup spool, hold everything tight, and start advancing using the takeup spool knob. Meanwhile, the Youtube people have a ton of backing paper hanging around. I will try this next time.

The difference may come down to how the backing paper gets aligned on the spool: maybe not putting much pressure on the paper allows it to self-center properly and not rub against the spool wall.

Sirius Glass · Jun 6, 2023

Steven Lee said:
I think so. I watched three Youtube videos last night to see how people load A12 backs. One consistent difference between them and me is that I never leave any slack of the backing paper. In other words, I stick the paper leader into the takeup spool, hold everything tight, and start advancing using the takeup spool knob. Meanwhile, the Youtube people have a ton of backing paper hanging around. I will try this next time.

The difference may come down to how the backing paper gets aligned on the spool: maybe not putting much pressure on the paper allows it to self-center properly and not rub against the spool wall.

I do not leave much slack in the film, actually very little.

Pieter12 · Jun 6, 2023

Are the negatives coming out OK?

Steven Lee · Jun 6, 2023

@Pieter12 thank you for asking. Yes, they always have. As I said, I've been shooting Blads for a few years now, and it's always been like this and I never thought much about it. But a couple of days ago a random thought visited me asking: why other SLRs with backs aren't like that.

j_landecker · Jun 6, 2023

Steven Lee said:
The title says it all. I've been using Hasselblads for a few years and currently I enjoy the Odess-serviced 503cx. When I advance the film, it requires gradually more effort towards the end of the roll, and using the small back crank to finish up takes quite a bit of effort. This has been going on with all of my backs, including those serviced by David, so it's not a back CLA issue.

Never had any problems though: no light leaks or frame spacing issues. Upon closer examination, it appears that the film gradually shifts to one side of the takeup spool, rubbing against that side with increasing friction. Even the backing paper looks more battered on one side. Now I'm wondering if that's just how it is and everyone is experiencing it, or maybe I need to pay closer attention to my film insert loading technique?

I've experienced this with some backs. As you say, it seems like the film starts to track towards one side of the film spool as it winds on. On the back that was the worst the paper backing would become noticeably frayed on one edge from pushing against the flange of the spool. I've examined that back and measured the distance between the rollers, thinking maybe they were out of parallel, but couldn't find anything obvious that would cause this mistracking.

Citsmith · Jun 6, 2023

It sounds as if you are refering to the small black crank handle on the back which finishes the film wind onto the spook after the last shot. I have experienced that on both my backs. The large film advance knob on the camera body is always the same but the small one on the back I can feel the finishing of the roll onto the take up spool.

BrianShaw · Jun 6, 2023

Steven Lee said:
I think so. I watched three Youtube videos last night to see how people load A12 backs. One consistent difference between them and me is that I never leave any slack of the backing paper. In other words, I stick the paper leader into the takeup spool, hold everything tight, and start advancing using the takeup spool knob. Meanwhile, the Youtube people have a ton of backing paper hanging around. I will try this next time.

The difference may come down to how the backing paper gets aligned on the spool: maybe not putting much pressure on the paper allows it to self-center properly and not rub against the spool wall.

If a YouTube video leaves slack in the film, then I'd really have to wonder about the rest of the content. EDIT: The linked video describes all of the important considerations and is a reasonable method. I don't pull my paper out quite as far as he does but he loads correctly - tight and aligned once the film is fully installed.

It is important to align the tab square with the takeup spool and maintain that squareness when turning to the start mark. It is important to not have slack in the backing paper (partially remedied by the silver tab) after reaching the start mark to avoid tearing the edge when putting the film cassette into the film back shell. Winding to "1" has always been quite smooth in my experience.

Steven Lee · Jun 6, 2023

@j_landecker thank you for sharing! At least I'm not alone

Sirius Glass · Jun 6, 2023

Citsmith said:
It sounds as if you are refering to the small black crank handle on the back which finishes the film wind onto the spook after the last shot. I have experienced that on both my backs. The large film advance knob on the camera body is always the same but the small one on the back I can feel the finishing of the roll onto the take up spool.

I have always had the same experience.

chuckroast · Jun 6, 2023

Citsmith said:
It sounds as if you are refering to the small black crank handle on the back which finishes the film wind onto the spook after the last shot. I have experienced that on both my backs. The large film advance knob on the camera body is always the same but the small one on the back I can feel the finishing of the roll onto the take up spool.

I have 3 reasonably modern A12s and 1 very old A24 and they all do as you suggest. The final wind with the small handle on the back itself gets tighter at the end but the body advance works the same for for all advances. This is independent of film type.

If the OP is getting consistent frame spacing and sharp exposures (i.e., No indication of the film not laying flat), there's likely nothing wrong.

The only thing that I've ever seen an HB needing is a new light traps. I replaced the one on my A24 which was kind of fiddly. Well ... I got it used for a very small sum and the gearing inside also needed a small amount of naptha to get the grunge out of it so it would advance cleanly. So I supposed a sufficiently old back might have some need for a CLA.

Sirius Glass · Jun 6, 2023

chuckroast said:
I have 3 reasonably modern A12s and 1 very old A24 and they all do as you suggest. The final wind with the small handle on the back itself gets tighter at the end but the body advance works the same for for all advances. This is independent of film type.

If the OP is getting consistent frame spacing and sharp exposures (i.e., No indication of the film not laying flat), there's likely nothing wrong.

The only thing that I've ever seen an HB needing is a new light traps. I replaced the one on my A24 which was kind of fiddly. Well ... I got it used for a very small sum and the gearing inside also needed a small amount of naptha to get the grunge out of it so it would advance cleanly. So I supposed a sufficiently old back might have some need for a CLA.

Backs need a CLA if the film spacing is off such as being too close together or too far apart, or the spacing increasing between frames as the film is used. As the backs need a CLA if number does not reset correctly when a roll of film is removed. I have had both occur.

itsdoable · Jun 6, 2023

In the Hasselblad back, film transport is by driving the take-up spool, and as the film gets wound up on it, a turn of the take-up spool moves more film, so there is a natural tendency to need a bit more force to move the film. This is subtle, but noticeable if you are careful. When enough film has been moved, the clutch in the back releases and lets you complete the shutter wind - at which point the wind gets easier. This change happens sooner during winding as the spool builds up, because it does not need to rotate as far for the same amount of film.

However, the film shifting to one side towards the end of the roll, and the paper getting bunched up on one side is a red flag. The film running crooked in the back definitely adds friction to the end of the roll. I've seen this on a back or 2, and I think I can trace one back to the insert being dropped on a roller, which caused it to be ever so slightly crooked.

When you advance film on Hasselblad, does the effort increase towards the end of the roll?

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