When will a new scanner be released?

[snaggs]

We havn't seen a new scanner for ages. Think how many generations of CCD/CMOS sensors we've had since the Nikon 9000 or 5000 came out.

Does anybody have an idea when we can expect something new in that price range?

Daniel.

 

[Pinholemaster]

The last time I checked Hell hasn't frozen over. Grin.

Nikon is too busy making good money on DSLR cameras.

Your wish is exactly like my own.

 

[Donsta]

I'd be very, very surprised if anyone introduced a new dedicated film scanner at this point in time... Nikon knows better than most what the trends are in the small format film market and their current offerings do a pretty good job. I bet the sales of new film scanners are amazingly dismal too. While I have a few film scanners, the last new one I purchased new was a Minolta Scan Multi Pro 6 years ago - it's still working perfectly and I don't believe we're ever going to see any "sunstantial" improvements to what it can do. I'm a little uncertain as to what it is you guys are hoping for that the current offerings can't do? Higher rez?

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I bet the sales of new film scanners are amazingly dismal too. ... I'm a little uncertain as to what it is you guys are hoping for that the current offerings can't do? Higher rez?

I don't have figures but I wonder about sales being dismal. I've been trying to buy a 9000 for a while, a few factors stymie me. Import taxes into Finland are legalised theft (and almost at extortion); shipping to here from modern developed countries is a killer in price; availablity is not high. Heck even the Minolta Dual Elite Pro is still selling for 2500 EURO used here.

I notice that Nikon 9000's sell out fairly fast at KEH and I've heard they're an order item at bhphoto.

If the HOT and stupidly stellar prices these things fetch on eBay is anything to go by (Eg LS-v now selling for more than I could buy the bloody thing for new a year ago and LS-4000's fetching US$1200 without attachments) there must be some sort of market out there. Surely it can't all be people buying them to "archive their film" and sell them again (although clearly that is a market too).

As to what would I like? well ..

1. drum scanners have nice bright xenon tubes to provide light to the sensors. If you work with C-41 negative the need to get into the shadows is high (as that's where the highlights are). I'd like noise free skies.
2. personally I think 35mm is more or less well catered for but larger formats (above 6x9) are not. I use 6x12 (and others are getting into 6x17) which pretty much means split scans or Epson flat beds. I also use 4x5 which restricts me more.
3. more accurate movements than most Flatbeds presently do (even my Ppson has problems). Experiments have shown that they can grow a pixel or two then shrink back as they advance along their path
4. software drivers which were more intelligent (perhaps offering ability to set hardware dark and light points for the film by analog adjustment of light source as well.

 

[MikeSeb]

Pellicle's wish list parallels my own. I'm in good shape with a Nikon 9000 available to me. What I'd like is something affordable that can do a comparable job on 4x5 film. The used Imacon 646 and 848 or equivalent are still to pricey for me.

It's hard to see anyone sinking R&D money into something with a limited market, when there's relatively easy money to be made selling cameras.

 

[Donsta]

Hi



I don't have figures but I wonder about sales being dismal. I've been trying to buy a 9000 for a while, a few factors stymie me. Import taxes into Finland are legalised theft (and almost at extortion); shipping to here from modern developed countries is a killer in price; availablity is not high. Heck even the Minolta Dual Elite Pro is still selling for 2500 EURO used here.

I notice that Nikon 9000's sell out fairly fast at KEH and I've heard they're an order item at bhphoto.

If the HOT and stupidly stellar prices these things fetch on eBay is anything to go by (Eg LS-v now selling for more than I could buy the bloody thing for new a year ago and LS-4000's fetching US$1200 without attachments) there must be some sort of market out there. Surely it can't all be people buying them to "archive their film" and sell them again (although clearly that is a market too).

As to what would I like? well ..

1. drum scanners have nice bright xenon tubes to provide light to the sensors. If you work with C-41 negative the need to get into the shadows is high (as that's where the highlights are). I'd like noise free skies.
2. personally I think 35mm is more or less well catered for but larger formats (above 6x9) are not. I use 6x12 (and others are getting into 6x17) which pretty much means split scans or Epson flat beds. I also use 4x5 which restricts me more.
3. more accurate movements than most Flatbeds presently do (even my Ppson has problems). Experiments have shown that they can grow a pixel or two then shrink back as they advance along their path
4. software drivers which were more intelligent (perhaps offering ability to set hardware dark and light points for the film by analog adjustment of light source as well.

Pick up a used drum scanner. I bought a used Howtek 4500 some time ago and it's amazing even though there's been no new drum scanning technology for probably about 10 years now. There's simply no comparison for large format although having done numerous comparisons with my Minolta on both 35mm and medium format, the desktop units still do amazingly well (and given their small footprint, ease of operation etc, it's no wonder they still change hands for decent prices). Consumer flatbeds are a long way behind, no matter which way you cut it. They are cheaply made, have plastic optics and really cheap and nasty stepping motors usually with a lot of plastic linkage in the drive configuration of the motor.

You simply are not going to get drum scanning mechanics in a desktop unit and for the price point, the current offerings of film scanners offer a lot of bang for the buck. I'm pretty sure the PMT in a drum scanner would cost a lot more than any desktop film scanner, with the exception of an overpriced Imacon.

Sounds like your complaints are really about your goverment's import policies, not about the availability at excellent prices of very good film scanners. There are a bunch of brand new 9000s on Ebay right now for $2500 - which FWIW, is just two hundred $$ more than I paid for my Minolta 6 years ago...

If you're in any doubt as to declining film sales, have a look at Kodak's results this morning - while they actually increased operating prfoit from their "film, photofinishing and entertainment" unit, sales were down 27% from said unit - "sharp cost reductions and lower retiree benefits were partially offset by a slide in consumer film sales and higher silver costs." That "slide" in consumer film sales is real and you can bet it's mostly in small format film.

 

[Donsta]

It's hard to see anyone sinking R&D money into something with a limited market, when there's relatively easy money to be made selling cameras.

Absolutely - especially when it is clear that film scanners are long lasting equipment - second hand value of good scanners remain very high. When you've made such an effort to make digicams consumables, why would you spend R&D on a product which is not?

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Pick up a used drum scanner. ...

love to ... but again shipping out of the USA is a nightmare of prices and duties. Even if I was back in Australia (my home) it wouldn't be much different.

Consumer flatbeds are a long way behind, no matter which way you cut it. ...

100%

Sounds like your complaints are really about your goverment's import policies

well at least some of them are, but the prices I'm seeing on ebay are not related to that

If you're in any doubt as to declining film sales...

pardon me, but you seem to be big on this point. I did not say anywhere that I feel film sales are doing anything, I believe you'll find I wrote only about scanners and their market. To paste the pertinent, you said:

I bet the sales of new film scanners are amazingly dismal too.

to which I replied that I am not certain that film scanners are doing so badly:

I don't have figures but I wonder about sales being dismal. ... I notice that Nikon 9000's sell out fairly fast at KEH and I've heard they're an order item at bhphoto.

If the HOT and stupidly stellar prices these things fetch on eBay is anything to go by

I am in totally no doubt about the flagging sales of film (and the same thing in finding film developing places too).

I'm also a digital user (and presently I'm pondering re-purchasing TS-E lenses and a full frame DSLR and giving up on 120 film altogether.

 

[pellicle]

BTW

Pick up a used drum scanner. I bought a used Howtek 4500 some time ago and it's amazing

if you don't mind a question or two on that topic (as I've also considered that option)

how is the software for it?
does it work well with negative as well as tranny? (I've heard some are rather optimised for slide)
what's spare parts like (availability as well as need)
what does it weigh?

 

[Donsta]

Aztek currently support all Howtek scanners - they also make DPL software for them which I'd highly recommend. I've also used Silverfast on it (costs about $600) and it works fine. The scanner works perfectly for both negatives and positives. Density of slide films tends to be higher in the shadow areas which is why typically desktop scanners do not do as well with it. I shoot plenty of color neg (I actually don't see much point to shooting slide film in larger formats when you're using a digital workflow)...

Aztek provide very good support for most models. As it turns out, I also managed to get my hands on a broken "parts" machine, but I haven't needed anything yet... My 4500 weighs about 150lbs.

BTW



if you don't mind a question or two on that topic (as I've also considered that option)

how is the software for it?
does it work well with negative as well as tranny? (I've heard some are rather optimised for slide)
what's spare parts like (availability as well as need)
what does it weigh?

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Aztek currently support all Howtek scanners - they also make DPL software for them which I'd highly recommend. ...

I shoot plenty of color neg (I actually don't see much point to shooting slide film in larger formats when you're using a digital workflow)...

I agree about slide with my 4x5 ... (even if Pro 160S is not as sharp as Provia, I really do not think that my 90mm lens will challenge it ;-) I prefer shadows to have something in them (rather than an ink spill), about the only place I wish I had slide in the holder is when the contrast range is so low as to make the digitization of slide give me neater image...

... My 4500 weighs about 150lbs.

<lowExtendedWhistle>oh k a y</lowExtendedWhistle>

that's about my personal body weight ... not going to be cheap to ship. Sigh ... even back in Australia there just wouldn't be many available




I guess I'll keep wishing ... the getting of the 9000 is getting closer

(existing logic runs like -> I want to scan some 35mm, the Epson is OK for 4x5 (and 120 in 6x12) BUT if I was going to buy a LS-4000 for 35mm I might as well put that money into making the purchase of an LS-9000 which will do both. Perhaps this will cost less than just the 5D II. Perhaps then too I can sell my APS DSLR + 12-24 Tokina + bits make use of my existing (not long ago overhauled) 35mm EOS bodies and my favourite pair of lenses (EF24mm and EF50). I could then 'splurge' on a new digital such as the Panasonic G1 (or some other Micro 4/3'rds for a compact hike camera) and combine that with my Toho 4x5 (weighs only 1.3Kg) a roll film back and 90mm 180mm lenses (should I wish to take something sweeping and detailed)

 

[Donsta]

(existing logic runs like -> I want to scan some 35mm, the Epson is OK for 4x5 (and 120 in 6x12) BUT if I was going to buy a LS-4000 for 35mm I might as well put that money into making the purchase of an LS-9000 which will do both. Perhaps this will cost less than just the 5D II. Perhaps then too I can sell my APS DSLR + 12-24 Tokina + bits make use of my existing (not long ago overhauled) 35mm EOS bodies and my favourite pair of lenses (EF24mm and EF50). I could then 'splurge' on a new digital such as the Panasonic G1 (or some other Micro 4/3'rds for a compact hike camera) and combine that with my Toho 4x5 (weighs only 1.3Kg) a roll film back and 90mm 180mm lenses (should I wish to take something sweeping and detailed)

At least you have some logic in your process - I can't say I have too much in mine! I really do think that too little gear is a better place to be than too much. I'm yet to convince myself that it is more fun though!

 

[toyotadesigner]

It is correct that the LS 9000 will scan both formats, but it's damn slow on 35mm compared to the LS 5000. That's the reason why I kept the LS 5000 after having purchased and tested the LS 9000. However, if 35mm is just a small share of your media, the LS 9000 will do it.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I really do think that too little gear is a better place to be than too much. I'm yet to convince myself that it is more fun though!

I think I'm on that side of the fence too ... I sold (and sell) gear as I aquire alternatives (assuming the experiment works or I sell the aquired). I've pretty much named my entire gear collection (although I wish I still had my TS-E 24 and 90 ... )

After getting into light digital cameras back in 2001 (with the Canon IXY 200 in Japan) I find 35mm a strange concoction to work with. After using sheet film for a few years using a roll film camera with an auto advance is like having an assistant ... gosh 36 (count em thirty six) shots with no effort, no whoops forgot the darkslide.

 

[pellicle]

jens

but it's damn slow on 35mm compared to the LS 5000. That's the reason why I kept the LS 5000 after having purchased and tested the LS 9000. However, if 35mm is just a small share of your media, the LS 9000 will do it.

now that's real interesting news. I had assumed that the 35mm scan times would be the same! Ok ... this makes me think my strategy should be to aquire a better 35mm scanner and keep on using my Epson 4870 for 6x12 and 4x5. (I'll pay for scans of better quality should I need them)

Thank you

 

[Ben Altman]

Don't overlook the possibility of finding a used professional flatbed like a Scitex Eversmart or Fuji Finescan. Make sure you get the dongle, though. I have a Fuji and it took a long time to get my hands on a dongle. Total cost was low, though.

I also have the Howtek/DPL-pro combo and like it. Avoid shipping drum scanners if possible; find one you can pick-up. There are many war stories about shipping. Other makes of drum scanner exist, most no longer have support but users. See the Yahoo tech group ScanHiEnd.

Ben

 

[nocrop]

Reading this thread makes me beat a post-haste retreat to 5x7 and 8x10 contact printing.