When was year zero?

blockend · Nov 2, 2017

As this is a philosophical discussion as much as anything, I'll post here. Reading about Kodak's declining stock value in another thread made me wonder how we got to this point. When I worked in photography digital was spoken of as a novelty, I recall 5 x 4 digital backs coming in at £25k, but I didn't personally know anyone who had a digital camera.

I continued to buy film for personal use until the mid-2000s when I bought a Canon digital point and shoot, and was sufficiently unimpressed that I didn't bother to move it past Auto. I probably shot about 100 frames, three of which survive. I became disenchanted with photography, believing my knowledge was historical and more or less gave up for a few years. I even threw out a few rolls of slide film that had been lingering in the fridge, in the belief nobody processed it any more, and gave my darkroom to a charity shop.

Then late 2008 I saw an article that said film was still a thing. Checked out eBay to discover there were lots of great cameras at pocket money(ish) prices, and set about buying everything again. When was the point you realised film would never again be the principal photographic medium, and how did you respond? Did you ignore digital photography and return to your silo? Did you flirt with it but return to film? And when was year zero?

Kino · Nov 2, 2017

Never abandoned film, but I didn't ignore digital either. Working in film restoration, I couldn't afford to! I still work primarily in photo chemical, but have since learned all I could about digital imaging techniques, as the infrastructure (equipment support) for film-based motion pictures will not survive like the still photo industry. It's too complex and everyone's dying-off that builds or maintains the equipment.

Now, I feel comfortable in both Worlds, but take neither for granted...

Lee Rust · Nov 2, 2017

For me it was 2013, when Kodak discontinued Ektachrome, a film type I had routinely used in my 35mm cameras for many decades. The future of manufactured film seemed uncertain, so I started learning about alternative processes, including coating glass plates for large format cameras and contact printing on hand-made AZO type paper. I've also indulged in quite a bit of analog film tech collecting, scouring local antique shops and APUG classifieds for interesting cameras and darkroom stuff.

By now I've worked out a balance between digital and film that might be somewhat upset by the return of Ektachrome.

Sirius Glass · Nov 2, 2017

I realized in the early 2000s that digital was going to dominate, especially since I had been using it since 1977 on the Voyager project. I decided that I liked the look and feel of film, especially black & white, better and decided to continue with film as long as I can.

tedr1 · Nov 2, 2017

Year zero was 2007. My Nikon FE outfit had sat unused for 3 years. I wanted to try a digital camera. I bought a Canon point and shoot (the 6MP A700) and the first project was to photograph the Nikon outfit for sale on ebay. I took to the digital Canon like a duck to water because it had all the controls I was already familiar with from film photography, because the results were visible immediately on the camera screen, the card held more than 36 images, the camera fitted in my pocket, it didn't need expensive batteries. I make small inkjet prints at home, buy small dye-sub prints at CVS, and buy large inkjet prints at Staples. The Nikon fetched more than the Canon cost. I still have and use the Canon. For me digital photography does color so much better, more quickly and cheaper than film. When I want black and white I have the RB67 and the darkroom

TheRook · Nov 2, 2017

I completely switched to digital photography around 2002 or so, when I got my first digital camera. In 2011, I slowly returned to film photography, eventually using it more and more. Although I still shoot both, film is my true passion.

Photo Engineer · Nov 2, 2017

Looking from the inside, I got a different perspective. Things changed with the Mavica camera, and Kodak went into denial. Of course, things went awry even earlier I think. And this refers to the entire industry, just from an EK POV.

PE

benjiboy · Nov 2, 2017

I've spent sixty five years learning what I know about film photography, and I at my age don't have the patience or time to get my head around a completely new medium. I think that digital photography is indeed wonderful, but it's not for me.

mikemgb · Nov 2, 2017

I bought my first digital camera in 2003 and sold my SLR. In 2009 I realized something was missing for me in photography, bought a few rolls of film and ran half of one through a point and shoot. For some reason I put the camera down before finishing the roll and forgot about it. Year zero was actually 2014 when father-in-law gave me his old Kodak Pony, I decided I was going to run a roll of film through it. I pulled out one of the rolls I had bought in 2009, ran it through the camera and that was it, I was hooked again.

As part of the story, early this year I found an old point and shoot in a box with a half shot roll of film in it, I finished the roll and developed the film. The first half was the photos I had taken in 2009 then forgotten about, even better, they were of my daughter's graduation, it was a lot of fun seeing them 8 years after I took them.

blockend · Nov 2, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Looking from the inside, I got a different perspective. Things changed with the Mavica camera, and Kodak went into denial. Of course, things went awry even earlier I think. And this refers to the entire industry, just from an EK POV.

PE

Do you mean the 1981 floppy disc Mavica, or the late 1990s Mavica FD range? I assume the latter. Not being a member of a club or taking a magazine, I recall the few hardcore film types I knew had almost all sent up the white flag and moved to digital by 2005. Some people must have still been buying film.

Theo Sulphate · Nov 2, 2017

Kino said:
Never abandoned film, but I didn't ignore digital either.
...
Now, I feel comfortable in both Worlds, but take neither for granted...

That describes me as well. I have two digital cameras among 80+ film cameras.

These days my interest and focus is on totally mechanical cameras, such as my Zeiss Nettar, Leica III, and any totally mechanical SLR.

I do not understand the term "year zero".

Wallendo · Nov 2, 2017

I originally bought one of Kodak's early digital models which advertised a whole megapixel (it was actually less), but became disillusioned with the quality and went back to film. As digital quality improved, I went back to digital and my film cameras sat unused. I was completely digital by 2005. I next used film in 2008 on an Amazon trip as a backup camera, and didn't shoot film again until I read that Kodak had discontinued Kodachrome. Even though I hadn't shot Kodachrome since 1981, I became nostalgic and started shooting film again and later started shooting B&W. I am now 80% film with digital reserved for special purposes.

BrianVS · Nov 2, 2017

When Kodak stopped developing film. I'd shoot one to two rolls a week, drop off to BJ's, get 5x7 prints as standard for ~$5. When Kodak pulled out of the film processing business, I knew the downward trend was coming on fast.

Sirius Glass · Nov 2, 2017

benjiboy said:
I've spent sixty five years learning what I know about film photography, and I at my age don't have the patience or time to get my head around a completely new medium. I think that digital photography is indeed wonderful, but it's not for me.

I am with you on this. I could never figure out how to chimp. No chimpin' for me.

blockend · Nov 2, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
That describes me as well. I have two digital cameras among 80+ film cameras.

These days my interest and focus is on totally mechanical cameras, such as my Zeiss Nettar, Leica III, and any totally mechanical SLR.

I do not understand the term "year zero".

Year zero refers to a number of things, I meant it in the Maoist sense of resetting the historical clock. On this forum film is still lingua franca, but in the photography world as a whole it is dead, even among photography enthusiasts. In fact especially among enthusiasts old enough to remember film.

I'm trying to elicit opinions on when digital went from a novelty to fill the new year prediction pages of photo magazines, to being a must have device for the majority. Did it take a few years, or was there a sudden rush? I recall film gear being much cheaper in 2009 than it is now, and people said it was cheaper still a few years earlier when it was practically being given away. There must have been a time when everyone dropped tools, so to speak, and said I'm converting.

mooseontheloose · Nov 2, 2017

I bought my first SLR in 2001 while I was living here in Japan. At that time the camera stores were heavily promoting digital cameras, but film cameras were still very much in abundance and the film coolers were well stocked. I did have a moment of weakness a few years later when the Nikon D70 came out, as I felt I was being left behind photographically, but in the end I decided I would be better served buying better lenses than a camera I could care less about. I left Japan in 2005 and came back briefly in 2009 and permanently in 2010. At this point most of the smaller camera shops were gone and the only places you could find decent quantities of film were the big stores like Yodobashi. But even then, Yodobasi’s film coolers were still a photographer’s wet dream. Within a couple years though, they have greatly reduced - the Shinjuku flagship is less than a third of what it used to be. However, in all that time I have not been tempted to go digital. I’ve never felt limited by film availability, especially as I shoot primarily black and white and print in a darkroom. That said, in 2014 I bought my first digital camera, a Fuji x100s. I bought it because I needed something for colour and low light situations, as high speed colour (slide) stocks were at death’s door, and I had to face reality that I had nothing to help me in those situations when I couldn’t use a tripod. So maybe that’s my (colour) year zero? But, it should come to no surprise to anyone here that I have barely used the camera in the past 3.5 years. The reality is, if I have to choose one camera for any situation, it will always be a film one. For snaps and my cemetery blog I use my phone. The quality isn’t great, but it’s good enough for the web.

mike c · Nov 2, 2017

benjiboy said:
I've spent sixty five years learning what I know about film photography, and I at my age don't have the patience or time to get my head around a completely new medium. I think that digital photography is indeed wonderful, but it's not for me.

I think the same way as benjiboy, and besides that, why would the old dog want to learn new tricks when the old tricks are just as good.

Cholentpot · Nov 2, 2017

In 2013 I saw a TLR in an old ad and I wanted one. Hopped the the 'bay and bought a few cheap ones and a tank. I was hooked. I then found an entry level DSLR used for pretty cheap and shot half and half. A few months later I was gifted a Nikkormat and started with 35mm. I've not looked back, While I would love to shoot more 120, 35mm is where I ended up. I got on board with the last of the cheap giveaway stuff. A year or two later things skyrocketed in price. For instance, I picked up a mint Asahi K1000 for $20, an AE-1 along with an armful of other stuff for $40, photoshop gave me all their out of date film for free. Cameras that I was gifted are now worth 3 or 4 times what they were listed when I got them.

Strange as it seems someone out there is buying all this film stuff.

mike c · Nov 2, 2017

What kept me interested in film during its rapid decline was the super cheap crazy low price of used film equipment , cameras and darkroom stuff I had always wanted were going for peanuts, so I bought a few.

mike c · Nov 2, 2017

Now the price of used film stuff has gone up, so stopped buying equipment and just buy film and paper and chems.

mshchem · Nov 2, 2017

I've just in the last few years have fully accepted RC paper. Year zero was when the D200 I paid 1600 dollars for I sold for 200 bucks.
Medium format on up to 11 X14.
I did buy a mint D3, for $570 it goes click really fast

mshchem · Nov 2, 2017

I keep buying cameras. I'm not going down without a fight. I'm hoarding enlargers and darkroom equipment too. NRA (National Reflex Association ) "When they pry it from my cold dead hands "

Photo Engineer · Nov 2, 2017

blockend said:
Do you mean the 1981 floppy disc Mavica, or the late 1990s Mavica FD range? I assume the latter. Not being a member of a club or taking a magazine, I recall the few hardcore film types I knew had almost all sent up the white flag and moved to digital by 2005. Some people must have still been buying film.

The original Mavica. That is when I first felt the twinges of change. The 1988 layoffs did more.

PE

etn · Nov 2, 2017

Interesting how we all had our own ways but eventually ended up here. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

I had been shooting film since the early 80’s and resisted digital very long. For one, I had a collection of Nikon lenses gathered over the years. I didn’t like the crop factor of DX and could not afford FX format at that time with the price those commanded.

My first digital was an X100s in 2013, then one year later a Df - for many reasons the only DSLR which appeals to me (am I old school?) Used them extensively for a couple years, then went back to my (photographic) love, medium format film - since then complemented by a couple 35mm rangefinders. My Df is mostly used for “scanning” those days, although I enjoy taking it out for a ride from time to time. This sensor is simply gorgeous in my opinion.

I remember how I decided to buy the X100s in the first place. Just came back from a week vacation with friends where I shot half a dozen B&W rolls, gave them to the local store for development and printing, and was amazed at the bill - close to 200 bucks. I thought, I do that 5 more times and it pays for a digital. Recent digital cams (such as the Fuji) had caught my eye and I just wanted an excuse to try it I guess. But after some time I realized I prefer film. I now print myself in the darkroom I built last year. Much more fun. I already spend all my time with a computer at work, I don’t need this on weekends.

Bottom line, back to the roots for me. Full circle. Year 0 never happened

etn · Nov 2, 2017

mshchem said:
I keep buying cameras. I'm not going down without a fight. I'm hoarding enlargers and darkroom equipment too. NRA (National Reflex Association ) "When they pry it from my cold dead hands "

Film cameras only go up in price. It is an investment as well as fun.
The guy I bought my Hasselblad from told me once, “stay away from that digital crap. I just had a customer paying 2500 bucks for repairing his $10,000 Hassy digital back. And in a few years it will be worth nothing.”
This kind of money can be justified for pros who turn this into a revenue stream, but for us amateurs?

When was year zero?

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