When is Analog photography not Analog???

23mjm · Sep 27, 2008

Hello All

So here is my story--in a few weeks I will be buying a new house. When I move into it I will not have a full time darkroom. I use a Beseler MX45 enlarger so it is not portable--easy to set up and take down. So here is what I want to---Shoot film, develop, scan, slight adjustments and print at Costco and/or post. It may be more than a few months until I can build a full time darkroom.

Is this still analog photography??

I feel better about scanning a print rather than a negative.

Gatsby1923 · Sep 28, 2008

I pitty the can of worms you just opened.....

keithwms · Sep 28, 2008

What's wrong with scanning a negative or a slide? :confused:

Did you also feel guilty when you tapped your post into a keyboard?

JBrunner · Sep 28, 2008

23mjm said:
Hello All

So here is my story--in a few weeks I will be buying a new house. When I move into it I will not have a full time darkroom. I use a Beseler MX45 enlarger so it is not portable--easy to set up and take down. So here is what I want to---Shoot film, develop, scan, slight adjustments and print at Costco and/or post. It may be more than a few months until I can build a full time darkroom.

Is this still analog photography??

I feel better about scanning a print rather than a negative.

No worms, it's been made very clear.
What you have described is a hybrid work flow, as far as the printing. A no go for Apug. Posting scanned positives or negatives that haven't been subject to more than corrective tweeking on APUG is generally ok, as spelled out in the gallery posting disclaimer. Of course I'm not the "official" word for all this, but you can read it for yourself here:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I feel your pain about printing. Your probably not going to like how your B&W gets treated by the color machines and color paper.

23mjm · Sep 28, 2008

Damn JBrunner that's two good points today

Costco really does descent color work--but you are 100% correct they will most likely butcher B&W and I really like Fiber Paper, wonder if they can do that:confused: NOT. I guess it is an ethic thing--to me the minute it is on a puter it ain't analog. See this has already saved me $10 or so.

JBrunner · Sep 28, 2008

23mjm said:
Damn JBrunner that's two good points today

Costco really does descent color work--but you are 100% correct they will most likely butcher B&W and I really like Fiber Paper, wonder if they can do that:confused: NOT. I guess it is an ethic thing--to me the minute it is on a puter it ain't analog. See this has already saved me $10 or so.

Could you downsize the enlarger, or maybe get a rolling cart?

yardkat · Sep 28, 2008

"Costco really does descent color work--but you are 100% correct they will most likely butcher B&W and I really like Fiber Paper,"

I like the color prints I get from Costco, and I have gotten a couple b&w things from them simply because they were actually digital shots that I wanted in b&w, don't tell anyone. They certainly weren't butchered, but definitely have a funky tint due to the fact that it is color paper. So they won't be butchered, but you will be disappointed, I'm sorry to say. There may be some other places that can do a better job printing b&w from scans, Mpix has the Ilford paper, for instance. I've never seen it myself, so I don't know how it looks. But maybe it will tide you over until you can start printing again? And if you can't do as Jason suggested and downsize, or rolling cart, or any other stop gap measure until you have your darkroom built, maybe you can find some rental darkroom space somewhere. Either way, good luck!
J

JBrunner · Sep 28, 2008

I have had the best results with color paper/printing using the monochrome c41 films.

Andy K · Sep 28, 2008

When it is analogue.

2F/2F · Sep 28, 2008

Analog means infinite. Something that cannot be explained with a unit of a specific fixed size such as a pixel, byte, bit, black or white, or on or off instruction/description. Something that is what it is, and has never been digitized AKA sampled from that which exists in the physical world. It means nothing but film, paper, and light, basically. The second a "sample" is introduced, it is digital.

As far as what the forums support at this Website, digital printing is not included. However, IMO, it doesn't matter what it's called. If you are good enough to make prints that satisfy you and accomplish what you want to accomplish, then you are a happy camper! You can certainly get great info about the shooting and processing side of things here, and there are other Websites that can probably provide great info for the digital printing side of things. I am sure many of these Websites have regulars who are also regulars here.

MurrayMinchin · Sep 28, 2008

2F/2F said:
Analog means infinite. Something that cannot be explained with a unit of a specific fixed size such as a pixel, byte, bit, black or white, or on or off instruction/description. Something that is what it is, and has never been digitized AKA sampled from that which exists in the physical world. It means nothing but film, paper, and light, basically. The second a "sample" is introduced, it is digital.

Wicked

Murray

Peter Black · Sep 28, 2008

There are folks on here who won't comment on a scanned neg and that's entirely fine and reasonable. Any photo that appears on APUG, however, will have been scanned in order to get there, unless there is some form of mind processing that I haven't found out about yet.

If the medium is held in a light-tight camera, can be ruined if the back is opened, can be altered in camera by my choice of coloured filter to put on the lens, has to be removed in the dark and then processed by my choice of wet chemicals in the dark, it's sure as hell analog(ue) to me.

As to your printing problem, you could try to find someone with one of those fancy deVeres, but perhaps not?

http://de-vere.com/

ford prefect · Sep 28, 2008

when i do b&w portrait work and need bigger than my enlarger will do (8X10 it's a small enlarger) or i need a big package fast wallets, 5x7 8x10 11x14 etc i use http://www.nationsphotolab.com/home.asp they do prety good b&w on endura paper from a jpg. i wont get into the if its analog thig or not part but just thought i would throw out a link to help you with print making sans enlarger the pricing is realy good also
allen

Nigel · Sep 28, 2008

2F/2F said:
Analog means infinite. Something that cannot be explained with a unit of a specific fixed size such as a pixel, byte, bit, black or white, or on or off instruction/description. Something that is what it is, and has never been digitized AKA sampled from that which exists in the physical world. It means nothing but film, paper, and light, basically. The second a "sample" is introduced, it is digital.

Hmmm. So actually, what we call analogue photography is indeed digital. The photon is the basic unit of light (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon for some background) and since light occurs in distinct pieces, it is then digital. So, our workflow, starting from the light, is initially digital.

Sorry, just being pedantic. Now, I'll let some other pedant discuss silver halide as analogue/digital.

keithwms · Sep 28, 2008

23mjm, if you just scan the neg, without adjustments, then it can be posted here.

If you scan and then go to town on it with PS, then it certainly should not be posted here, and hybridphoto would indeed be a better venue.

But the legality of where you post isn't the big issue, actually. Neither is the issue of analogue versus digital. The big issue is how this will affect your workflow and your way of thinking; actually, it might be good for you to step away from the familiar for a little bit and try some new things.

If you do decide to post straight (unedited) negs, then if nothing else it'll teach you to do more work in the shooting phase rather than in the darkroom. For example, consider posting full negs, uncropped. It can be quite therapeutic.

I'd say embrace the change ...at least for a little while.... and let it affect your way of thinking. Probably you'll want a darkroom again, and soon! But nevertheless this can be a good time to think about the big picture. Regardless of what art you do, it is always good to step back from it from time to time. Otherwise you can get stuck in a creative rut. </end of grandfatherly lecture>

removed account4 · Sep 28, 2008

23mjm said:
Hello All

So here is my story--in a few weeks I will be buying a new house. When I move into it I will not have a full time darkroom. I use a Beseler MX45 enlarger so it is not portable--easy to set up and take down. So here is what I want to---Shoot film, develop, scan, slight adjustments and print at Costco and/or post. It may be more than a few months until I can build a full time darkroom.

Is this still analog photography??

I feel better about scanning a print rather than a negative.

you might be able to find out if your costco sends out their black and white to a lab like dwaynes.
sam's club and walmart sends b/w there and it comes out OK ...
they don't output onto color paper but make b/w prints from what i understand. i think they can give you a cd as well ...

i don't know if contact printing is an option for you, or what format you are shooting ...
if you want to squelch all the folks that will be upset with you for posting
negative scans without a print, you could always make a contact print and scan that.
an enlarger isn't needed for contact prints, just a bare bulb and paper ...
35mm and mf contact prints can look really nice , i've been making 6x9 contact prints lately, its ez-pz.

good luck with the signal to noise ratio of the next 15 pages

keithwms · Sep 28, 2008

P.S. although I have a complete darkroon at work, with four enlargers and so forth, but I still have a good time making little cyanotypes or Pt/Pd things at home... just coating the paper in the livingroom, tacking the neg on there, attached to a board, put it outside int he sun for a few minutes, bring it in and devlop in the tub... this is good fun, I tell you. Fun for the whole famly, in fact!

gr82bart · Sep 28, 2008

To me, if it's captured on film and printed on "wet chemistry" paper it's analog. Ostracizing folks that use a computer as an enlarger only marginalizes a large segment of an already shrinking traditional and historical photography base.

Regards, Art.

2F/2F · Sep 28, 2008

Nigel said:
Hmmm. So actually, what we call analogue photography is indeed digital. The photon is the basic unit of light (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon for some background) and since light occurs in distinct pieces, it is then digital. So, our workflow, starting from the light, is initially digital.

Sorry, just being pedantic. Now, I'll let some other pedant discuss silver halide as analogue/digital.

A "distinct" piece does not equal a finite piece. There are an infinite number of variations that occur in the real world that cannot be sampled or sectioned by a finite system of recording.

Let me be clear that I do not have any problems with digital technology...just the type of technicians and "artists" it tends to breed.

Poisson Du Jour · Sep 28, 2008

gr82bart said:
To me, if it's captured on film and printed on "wet chemistry" paper it's analog. Ostracizing folks that use a computer as an enlarger only marginalizes a large segment of an already shrinking traditional and historical photography base.

Amen.

Aurum · Sep 28, 2008

gr82bart said:
To me, if it's captured on film and printed on "wet chemistry" paper it's analog. Ostracizing folks that use a computer as an enlarger only marginalizes a large segment of an already shrinking traditional and historical photography base.

Regards, Art.

I couldn't enlarge 6x9 any other way, and its a nice simple no fuss way of getting 35mm and 6x6 proofs before going to town in the darkroom.

Now if someone has a spare enlarger that will handle 6x9 MF in the UK at a reasonable price.........

catem · Sep 29, 2008

Aurum said:
Now if someone has a spare enlarger that will handle 6x9 MF in the UK at a reasonable price.........

I'm looking for one of them aswell! (also UK....)

Kirk Keyes · Sep 29, 2008

Q: When is digital photography analog?

A: When you scan your neg or print and post it on APUG...

Again voicing my opinion about the hybrid schism.

I'm with Art, we should embrace anyone that uses traditional photographic materials.

keithwms · Sep 29, 2008

Kirk Keyes said:
I'm with Art, we should embrace anyone that uses traditional photographic materials.

x3

...and not only embrace, but also respect...

paulie · Sep 16, 2009

buy a full plate and contact print, god your so lucky i love it when outside influences change my vision.

When is Analog photography not Analog???

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When is Analog photography not Analog???

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