When does a serious amateur become a professional?

I in no way support myself 100% with photography. I am a full-time student with $$$ from the VA, which I supplement by assisting a local stock/wedding shooter whenever possible. Without the VA, I would not be able to go to school! I don't think I could make it on photography alone. Takes too much entrepreneurship, which I do not have. I do hope to at least be able to support my photography with my photography for now, though!

I guess you are technically a professional when taking pix is how you support yourself.

However, I don't think that being technically a professional makes one "of professional quality". There are MANY pros who are terrible photographers, but good businesspeople, and vice versa, and everything in between. The really successful ones are usually the ones who are decent photographers and great businesspeople...or who at least associate themselves with great businesspeople.

My hardest obstacle is that I do not like selling myself. I hate talking myself up to anyone. Well, I will have to learn soon, or sink! I am transferring to Art Center next year, and that is the only thing I truly hope to learn there.

I will consider myself a professional when photography is pretty much all I do, and I am self supporting from photography alone. I hope this means I will be shooting for AP or Reuters or something, but I imagine I will have to do other things as well to meet this standard for "professionalism". I see lots of crummy weddings, headshots, portraits, etc. in my future before I am where I want to be.

As far as spending money to make money, I guess I have done a poor job up 'til now. What I have is about $7,500 into a good multi-format analog setup that includes too many cameras to count, a decent hot-light kit for the studio, and a halfway decent darkroom. I would like more streamlined color capabilities (a Kreonite or Ilford processor instead of my crummy rotary tube Dev-Tec), but it works for now. It's about $50,000-worth of equipment if you look at the original prices! However, none of this has even come close to paying for itself! Yet my one "outdated" digital camera (Canon 10D acquired for free from a friend who upgraded) and its adapted Nikon F lenses (about $200 for three) have paid for themselves more than 20 times over as a second shooter at weddings and shooting live bands and a few local spot news pix. Go figure. My most cheesy tool makes me the most money. Hasn't quite paid for all the film stuff yet, but it will fairly soon! THAT is why I love digital, and that's about it.

benjiboy said:

Why do so many people aspire to be professional photographers, not professional plumbers, or carpenters that in most cases both would be more lucrative, (certainly was the last time I employed them ) , the question may on the face of it seem flippant but there is a serious point here.

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I think because everyone is a photographer now, and there's no way back from that. People get their digital (usually) camera, often spend a surprising amount on 'gear', do a few weddings of family or friends, and hey presto. I don't want to sound dismissive, I'm not, I think digital has opened up photography to many and that is a good thing. But it's taken me years of practice and study to get to the point of NOT being a FULL-time professional photographer. But I do consider at least part of my work to be 'professional' rather than 'amateur'.

There are fewer and fewer full-time professional photographers - it's simply becoming too hard to make a decent living for all but a few. Therefore these terms 'experienced amateur', 'semi-professional', 'professional' become harder to define - they don't mean clearly what they once did. Meanwhile, I consider I do professional work - by which mean up to a certain standard of work and with a professional attitude and expectations of myself and who I'm doing the work for (which includes both film and digital work) - much as outllined by don and others. At the same time, I do what pleases me and I have made decisions NOT to accept certain work, or go down certain paths - I am fortunate in that I don't have to rely fully on income from photography otherwise I would have no choice but to do work that was not so appealing, at certain times - that's the reality of being a full-time pro currently for most people. If you have been established for a while previous to the digital revolution, or have become very successful, then you can be picky, but that's not how it has happened for anyone I've come across who has tried to break into professional photography in the last five years or so. And more than one good full-time established (as in 25 years) fully professional photographer friend has had to turn to other sources of income.

At the same time I've seen a lot of snobbery on forums from some people who describe themselves as 'experienced amateurs' and claim superiority to pro's (and I'm an amateur too, with a lot of the photography I do, as in I don't get money for it, and do it for love - the original sense of 'amateur' - but I wouldn't dream of downgrading the work of 'professionals'). I mean when it appears to be in the sense as when people from a certain class once didn't want their daughters to mix with those 'in business' and as if true 'talent' resides amongst those who eschew the professional/commercial path.

Meanwhile, back to the question of when you 'become' professional, I stand by saying it is a balance of keeping all those notions (the good ones) of professionalism in your head, of skills and attitude, finding your specialism or specialisms, making sure you can deliver, whilst not being too hard on yourself - because lack of confidence, rather than lack of skills and ability, is a hindrance when allowed to assume too great a control.

benjiboy said:

I read recently Jason, that the average plumber earns more a year than the average surgeon in the U.S , so maybe you'd better re-think, on the other hand photography beats working !
P.S. I saw your blog on Youtube promoting A.P.U.G, great stuff.

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I have been very lucky to have been able to support myself with cameras in one form or another all my working life.

Like any profession, it has its drawbacks, and benefits. Right now, business is harder than it has ever been. Competition and declining budgets have truly taken a toll.

There were other careers I could have chosen that would have been more lucrative, but then again, I am exploring more lucrative aspects of photography that I have previously ignored.

A large part of being "professional" is finding enough business to stay in business, and as I said before, knowing when to say no if it isn't good for business.

Most people fail at being pro because they don't treat it as a business first and foremost. If you don't have the stomach for that, it isn't for you.

My personal stuff, and the work I do for money are far apart in every aspect.

Only very recently have I sought to bring in analog as a feature, rather than a tool, in an area that seems more lucrative than commercial work these days, at least for me.

Dead Link Removed

Time will tell.

ted_smith said:

I am registered as self-employed alongside my day job because I have earned a little bit of money from the sale or two of some landscape shots and I hope to make some more in the future. As a government employee, I have to register as s\e with an additional income, no matter how small.

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Ouch! That is a rather stringent policy (legislation?). I was wondering the same thing recently because I also had a few sales. I approached the problem from the side of tax law, and got some very useful comments, if you want to contribute too:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

ted_smith said:

But if I turn up at some family home and they say "Photograph the dog in the back garden and nowhere else today, in the rain" I might not be able to get what I consider to be satisfactory shots.

So I guess my questions to those of you who are pro or semi-pro is this...at what point did you venture from being just a serious amateur to someone who actually charges for your services? And how did you know you'd be able to pull it off the first few times you did it? I can keep buying kit till it comes out my ears but eventually I have to say "Ok - I'm ready to go".

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I would say: start by trusting yourself. Once you know exposure and your equipment inside out, you shouldn't fear total technical failure anymore. Yes, it can happen, and even the pros suffer from it. But nobody's living paralyzed by the fear of it, and there's always a plan B.

Depending on the client, you may not always need to push yourself to your creative limits all the time. Some clients will be very happy with the range you've covered already and ask for "that style, but with my dog instead."

That's not to say you should be a hack and charge outrageous prices for lazy shots, but for commercial photography, good enough is often good enough. Delivering the goods is more important than winning prizes.

My "pro" experience so far consists of this: every year at my work place, we interview some two dozen candidates for a scholarship, and it's my duty over two days to take their photographs as they come and go. I have a simple studio setup with strobes, backdrop, reflectors &c, and I shoot everything on film. Never missed a shot until now, essentially because I know exactly what I'm doing and don't step out of my zone.

For me, "professional photographer" essentially means "gun for hire," as Helmut Newton called himself. Somebody calls you up to do a job, they give you some latitude and you deliver the goods in exchange for retribution.

mhv said:

For me, "professional photographer" essentially means "gun for hire," as Helmut Newton called himself. Somebody calls you up to do a job, they give you some latitude and you deliver the goods in exchange for retribution.

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This is what it means for me also. My experience, when hired to do "professional" work, was about agreeing on payment amount, or rate, and reporting a sales tax in Massachusetts (passed on to customer). You'll know they were satisfied when they hire you again.

It can all be very simple, and when the customer has urgent needs the pay rates can be substantial. I've made $1000 in an afternoon, about 4 hours work, and 8-10 shots of simple (easy) subjects for textbook publication. Because I was delivering the goods quickly, I was always hired again for similar work - they kept me on standby.

I'm a professional in a different field, so I felt that I was winging-it as a "professional photographer". I was always in control of what I was doing, though.

Hey guys - thanks for all that. Much of it is very re-assuring.

I have a bit of a story to tell, which is relevant to this very thread.

I went for a walk to the local park with my wife's uncle, accompanied by his dogs and my dogs. I took my camera (Nikon F80) loaded with some Agfapan 100 B&W film with my Nikon 80-200mm lens stuck on the front.

We were sat on the bench by the river just chatting when a lady walked up with her dogs. She was talking to us generally at first about 'dog stuff' and then she asked "Are you a photographer then?". In recent weeks, when asked anything similar by stangers, I've been to shy and 'confidence lacking' to suggest that I was an up-and-coming trader or anything (thus this thread) and so when I was asked anything like that I used to just down size my response and not be honest about my actual business incentives due to a lack of confidence. Anyway, when these repeated responses resulted in a zero client base, and after reading the above replies, I decided that it was time to take the bull by the horns and start acting more professionally! So on this occasion I responded confidently to the lady with "Yes, I am. Actually, I'm a dog photographer...". Well that was it. She then replied with "Oh really? How super. My camera broke recently which is a shame because I'd like some photo's of Fido (or whatever he was called) while he is still a puppy". To which I responded with "Sounds like you need a dog photographer!". Well, there and then, on the park, I blasted off the 36 exposures I had in my F80 and half way through I agreed to contact her to arrange a home shoot with her dogs and family. I said I'd get the film processed and bring the proofs with me before taking more at her home. In addition, she's talking about having her mum with her Afghans round as well!!!

So how funny is that - an innocent walk to the park has resulted in my first client. And you're all so right - when you act confident, even if you aren't inside, it's not that hard to come across in a good light.

With regards to the "Why go pro" debate, in my case, it was just a case of I love photography, and I love dogs, and I really love creating great photos of dogs and seeing people's reactions when they see them - it gives me a good feeling inside. For me, this is what photography is all about; capturing great moments for people to treasure. In addition, 'dog photographers' are not that common. So if I can earn a bit of money from doing that to help pay for my hobby, essentially, then I see that a bonus. As one poster said, I have the luxury of being employed full time so I'm not under the same pressures as many pros. In essence, I have the best of both worlds.

Ted

Ted

in your case I would set it like this: "I am professional photog with secondary job (business) in the city.
To be professional photographer you do not need even and camera. The number one job is to find job. After that you can hire a photog. If you want to do it yourself do it but you have to have self confidence and do not think you cannot make it.
If you are pro photog just because you like it, you better off stay away.
Daniel OB
www.Leica-R.com

The lesson learnt from that day is that you won't get any work by keeping your skills a secret...don't be afraid to tout your business.

Caution

ted_smith said:

Hey guys - thanks for all that. Much of it is very re-assuring.

I have a bit of a story to tell, which is relevant to this very thread.

I went for a walk to the local park with my wife's uncle, accompanied by his dogs and my dogs. I took my camera (Nikon F80) loaded with some Agfapan 100 B&W film with my Nikon 80-200mm lens stuck on the front.

We were sat on the bench by the river just chatting when a lady walked up with her dogs. She was talking to us generally at first about 'dog stuff' and then she asked "Are you a photographer then?". In recent weeks, when asked anything similar by stangers, I've been to shy and 'confidence lacking' to suggest that I was an up-and-coming trader or anything (thus this thread) and so when I was asked anything like that I used to just down size my response and not be honest about my actual business incentives due to a lack of confidence. Anyway, when these repeated responses resulted in a zero client base, and after reading the above replies, I decided that it was time to take the bull by the horns and start acting more professionally! So on this occasion I responded confidently to the lady with "Yes, I am. Actually, I'm a dog photographer...". Well that was it. She then replied with "Oh really? How super. My camera broke recently which is a shame because I'd like some photo's of Fido (or whatever he was called) while he is still a puppy". To which I responded with "Sounds like you need a dog photographer!". Well, there and then, on the park, I blasted off the 36 exposures I had in my F80 and half way through I agreed to contact her to arrange a home shoot with her dogs and family. I said I'd get the film processed and bring the proofs with me before taking more at her home. In addition, she's talking about having her mum with her Afghans round as well!!!

So how funny is that - an innocent walk to the park has resulted in my first client. And you're all so right - when you act confident, even if you aren't inside, it's not that hard to come across in a good light.

With regards to the "Why go pro" debate, in my case, it was just a case of I love photography, and I love dogs, and I really love creating great photos of dogs and seeing people's reactions when they see them - it gives me a good feeling inside. For me, this is what photography is all about; capturing great moments for people to treasure. In addition, 'dog photographers' are not that common. So if I can earn a bit of money from doing that to help pay for my hobby, essentially, then I see that a bonus. As one poster said, I have the luxury of being employed full time so I'm not under the same pressures as many pros. In essence, I have the best of both worlds.

Ted

Ted

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I, glad you had such good luck Ted, but just a word of caution , I have found to my cost that taking pictures with anything that looks too professional is against the by-laws in most public parks in the U.K., and tripods are banned all together, I've been thrown out of a few in the past with my model.

df cardwell said:

mm, gentle disagreement.

Like a professional dentist,
or a professional automobile repair person,
there is a accountability to the client that goes with the phrase 'professional'.

And it isn't optional. Or a state of mind, unless your state of mind
can somehow make those pictures come out that didn't quite come out.

"Professional" isn't about being happy, or making satisfying pictures.
It is about being about to make and fulfill a contract to deliver pictures of a very specific nature.

It has nothing with being an artist. It ain't for everybody.

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You said:
"Professional" isn't about being happy, or making satisfying pictures.
It is about being about to make and fulfill a contract to deliver pictures of a very specific nature.

That's very true, but ... If one's approach to photography is that mechanical, perhaps it's time for that person to move on to something more fulfilling.

I do what I do because I enjoy it, both my real job and photography, not because I feel I must make the best of the hand I was dealt. To me, that's giving up.

I may well lose in the end but, by God, they'll know I've been here.

Professionals that have given talks at our club have admitted when asked that they rarely if ever take photos outside their normal work. In other words they are only in for the money and good luck to them they are only making a living.
We on the other hand can shoot what we like when like all to suit our own satisfaction. If our shot fails -tough luck try again. But if you are a professional - failure is not an option. It is my belief that you can't be an amature / professional.
Its great that someone might buy your work when they come across it. But it is totally different when you take work in order to sell it. This is more like the"tail wagging the dog".

Cheers
TEX

TEX, that's interesting - in presentations to my local camera club, the local pros have said the opposite - eg, they shoot commercial work of some kind for money (be it corporate headshots, architectural shots, food shots, weddings or whatever), and do some other kind of photography for fun or to "keep it fresh", as some put it - some did landscapes/nature, others were into star/fireworks, some did "street" for fun. Some had a signficant body of "fun" work as well...

YMMV, I guess..

As there are no official or legal requirements that accompany the use of the term "professional photographer" there are going to be many differing definitions. To further complicate the matter differing genres of photography and different regions also have differing expectations of a professional photographer. There's a different qualitative expectation placed on someone who photographs the head of giant multi national corporations for their annual report or the cover of a national magazine than there is for someone who takes baby photos at a mall or does a headshot for a small town realtor.

A "serious" amateur can easily go from amateur to professional if the work required, and expectation placed on them is of the less challenging variety and their clients are not very experienced with photography at a professional level. At the higher levels, in which the quality is expected to be extraordinarily high and the clients heavily experienced with hiring photographers, the career path usually goes serious amateur, photography undergraduate, and then years spent assisting one or more heavily experienced professional. Most amateurs do not have any idea of just how much information or technique they do not know. A few years working for a master reveals the depth of knowledge required. A truly professional photographer can handle nearly any situation that can possibly come up on a shoot, and ALWAYS comes back with work of professional caliber.

The technical, and bare minimum requirement of being a professional anything, is that you are paid for your skills, that you derive your income primarily from that occupation and that you produce work consistently, and act consistently in a professional manner.

If 51% of your total income is earned directly from photography, you can call yourself a professional. Whether you are or not depends on your product and your service directly to the customer.

Charlie.......................................

I don't aspire to be a professional photographer, at the prices they charge I want to be a professional plumber.

I'm glad that it hasn't come to all this in Belgium, we are still free to photograph everything we want. The only real exception is railway stations, there is a law that prohibits photographing them but in practice it's rarely enforced. The law was originally to counter espionage from other countries in order to plan a war and target the stations (as the railway still played a important strategic role). However, I recently took a lot of photographs with my Bronica inside the central station of Antwerp and while it has video surveillance nobody came to send me away. Although if you would use a LF camera they might come ask questions but it would rather be to make sure you don't hinder any other commuters.