When does a serious amateur become a professional?

ted_smith · Jun 13, 2008

Hi all

I am registered as self-employed alongside my day job because I have earned a little bit of money from the sale or two of some landscape shots and I hope to make some more in the future. As a government employee, I have to register as s\e with an additional income, no matter how small.

I have devised price lists, set up accounts, gathered a sufficient range of kit to allow me to shoot in most conditions (appropriate lenses, good flash units, reflectors, spare bodies, etc) and also developed a kind of brand - basically, dog photography.

That said, I'm really just an amateur, a keen hobbyist, like many of us.

However, I'm getting to the point where I'd like to place a small local advert to advertise my services. What's worrying me though is that I turn up at a clients house one day and I can't do what a pro does, i.e. get good shots regardless of the conditions thrown at me. I get good shots when the conditions are right and when I have the time and direction to shoot what I want, how I want. But if I turn up at some family home and they say "Photograph the dog in the back garden and nowhere else today, in the rain" I might not be able to get what I consider to be satisfactory shots.

So I guess my questions to those of you who are pro or semi-pro is this...at what point did you venture from being just a serious amateur to someone who actually charges for your services? And how did you know you'd be able to pull it off the first few times you did it? I can keep buying kit till it comes out my ears but eventually I have to say "Ok - I'm ready to go".

Ted

jovo · Jun 13, 2008

Why not set up conditions for such shoots? It wouldn't be difficult to frame a paragraph or two that explains why, for best results, a certain situation that makes your work likely to be successful needs to be in place. I suspect the very notion that you are experienced enough to know about and insist on such conditions would be reassuring to a client. You're making photographs that work, not making gold from lead. You're the pro....explain what will assure likely success.

Dave Miller · Jun 13, 2008

John is correct, a professional, in any field, controls the situation, even when the client thinks that they are.

catem · Jun 13, 2008

Dave Miller said:
John is correct, a professional, in any field, controls the situation, even when the client thinks that they are.

Yes, but everyone flies by the seat of their pants at first. The secret is to enable the client to believe you are in full control, even when you are not. I remember a successful photog telling me about when she received her first regular engagement with a well-known Sunday colour supplement - she took what she believed to be the ONLY ten portraits of any worth she had ever taken and when engaged was terrified she would never be able to take a worthy portrait again. I think it's normal to feel that way, even when you have more under your belt. Perhaps it's normal, even productive, in creative fields always to have a certain amount of doubt or uncertainty.

As for when you become a 'professional' - I think 'professionalism' is a state of mind and doing - if you do a job and deliver the end-product in a professional way and to a professional standard, for money, you are a professional, even if you only do such a thing twice a month, or even a year, and even if you also earn money from other sources.

RobC · Jun 13, 2008

You just call yourself a "Photographer". There are good phtographers and there are bad photographers. There are good professional photographers and there are bad profesional photographers. Professional is just a label. It doesn't mean anything. Just because you are charging to do photography doesn't make you a professional photographer. Having a big flashy camera with flash and a few reflectors may make you look professional in the eyes of some clients but it doesn't make you a professional.

Being a professional is about your attitude to what you are doing and that means doing things properly, giving good service, charging a sensible rate, delivering good quality results, delivering what you have agreed to deliver, treating your clients respectfully, delivering on time, being reliable, not bullshitting your way out of producing crap work etc etc.
Anyone can call themselves professional. Actually living up to the label and gaining a reputation for having a professional approach to what you do is another matter.

catem · Jun 13, 2008

catem said:
Yes, but everyone flies by the seat of their pants at first. The secret is to enable the client to believe you are in full control, even when you are not. .

Actually I'll qualify that slightly by saying that it's most likely for a someone to be more in control (of themselves, if not the situation) than they think they are. We really are our own worst enemies most of the time - except for the minority who think they know it all when they know very little. And also it should be a two-way street. Or even, arguably, one-way - the clients' way (or what the client wants, at least). I would add it's important to specialise and thus stay within your capabilities, but at the same time not to let lack of confidence be a barrier to trying something new if it comes your way. Honesty with the client can help (depending on kind of job - it may be something where someone with more experience would and should do better, for example I would never do a wedding for someone unknown to me, I hate weddings anyway) or it may be something you could have a good crack at without being unfair to the client - as long as you don't set yourself up as a god you won't have very far to fall.

phenix · Jun 13, 2008

Ted,

I think there are two conditions you have to fulfill if you want to call yourself a pro photographer:
1) You have to earn money of shooting;
2) Earn enough money of shooting, in order to allow yourself not to shoot what you don’t find OK.
John and Dave are right about this second issue. You have to set the conditions for a good shoot or turn of your clients. Of course, don’t take it in an intransigent manner: there is something between these two extremes, called persuasion – and this is what brings you the pounds. How do you get there? Some knowledge (look what others did) and experience, plus communication skills. The narrow the field you choused, the faster you get to all of these.

But there’s something more than this: become an artist. To get there, there are other two conditions, independent of the above ones (IMO, of course):
a) Do something that moves much more people than those who pays you;
b) Do something others didn’t yet, or didn’t the way you do it (example: shoot copulating dogs).

While being a pro is not necessary to be an artist, and vice-versa, you should consider yourself blessed if you’ll become both of them.

PS: Rob has also a strong point!

Pinholemaster · Jun 13, 2008

I've been a professional photographer since college, 30 years now.

I control nothing. It's all an illusion. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, the Great OZ has spoken."

What makes me professional is that it's the only way I have to pay the bills.

df cardwell · Jun 13, 2008

When you agree to make a picture for somebody else,
you agree to illustrate their idea,
to fulfill their vision. To give them what they need.

Like ordering a meal at a restaurant,
the client deserves to know they will be served what they are ordering.

Our portfolio is our menu. The client expects their picture to look like the picture they see in your book.
Sometimes, what they See In a Magazine, or somebody elses book !
Being a PRO isn't really about being inspirational and shocking, it is about delivering the goods.
The most important part of the job is to understand what client wants.
If client wants a picture of their Newfie rescuing a drowning sailor from the sea,
you might ask them to clarify some details before you rent the scuba gear.

You know that a breeder or fancier has certain expectations from the picture,
and if you can deliver them, you will soon have to turn the work away. You have a very neat speciality,
and if you can give folks pictures that might have been made by the best in the business
but for better value and convenience, you'll do very well.

As far as control, if you're asked to photograph the dog in the rain,
sure as your born the owner will be angry at you for not making the sun shine.
YOU're the one who pushed the button. It is ALL your responsibility.

Ole · Jun 13, 2008

Ted, you have that greatest blessing of all for a commercial photographer: you have a "day job", so you can afford to say no.

Do the jobs you want, and refuse the ones you don't want. In a few years that will either give you no work at all; or it will give you so much work that you will have to decide which jobs to refuse. At that point you may call yourself a professional.

Ole
former part-time professional, but decided it was too much like work.

JBrunner · Jun 13, 2008

A big part of being a professional is that when someone insists you do something ludicrous in regard to time, price, or logistics, you say "No."

Gary Holliday · Jun 13, 2008

You are ready when you feel that you are confident enough to do the job. Every job is nerve racking and the pressure is on to deliver. Just make sure there is plenty of communication between yourself and the client, so you know what is to be expected.

Be the boss on the shoot and if you don't like what you see in the contact sheets afterwards, you can always do it again. But that shouldn't happen!

I recently completed a business plan for my new business, so you may get some ideas for the business side of things here:
http://www.bplans.co.uk/sample_busi...graphy_Business_Plan/executive_summary_fc.cfm

eddym · Jun 14, 2008

ted_smith said:
But if I turn up at some family home and they say "Photograph the dog in the back garden and nowhere else today, in the rain" I might not be able to get what I consider to be satisfactory shots.

So I guess my questions to those of you who are pro or semi-pro is this...at what point did you venture from being just a serious amateur to someone who actually charges for your services? And how did you know you'd be able to pull it off the first few times you did it? I can keep buying kit till it comes out my ears but eventually I have to say "Ok - I'm ready to go".

Ted

One of the most important pieces of your kit is something you can't buy: tact. You use it to explain to the idiot (oops, I mean customer) exactly why his idea of shooting in the garden in the rain might not produce the best results, and to suggest alternatives. If he insists on doing it his way, you have to make the choice of refusing the job (and tactfully explaining why) or attempting the job, but first explaining -tactfully- that you really don't believe they will be satisfied with the results, and for that reason, you offer no guarantees.

KD5NRH · Jun 14, 2008

Or you could just call him an idiot. If he's not going to be satisfied, you might as well be.

Philippe-Georges · Jun 14, 2008

Pinhole master is the closest to the 'making of absolute sense'.
The difference between the 'amateur' and the 'pro' is that the amateur can, what and whenever he wants, do his thing. No one is going to set op lines between which he (or she) has to operate, in order to for fill the wishes of the commissionaire. The pro needs that kind of state of mind to be able to 'create' whit in these limits and to deliver to the highest quality standards.
For a pro, there must be 25 hours a day, he needs them to fight in order to get the job, to do the job and to get paid for the job. He has to do the calculating, day by day, to pay the bills when time is due.
At the end he's the one who takes the risks, creatively and financially.
Oh, and yes, forget about the art, perhaps, whit a huge lot luck and and an even huge lot of sweat (not to mention a bit of slyness) you will be, at the end, 'allowed' to do some ' independent art'...

But, of course, you do not have to believe me...

Good luck,

Philippe

tim elder · Jun 14, 2008

ted_smith said:
I can keep buying kit till it comes out my ears but eventually I have to say "Ok - I'm ready to go".

Ted

This is it - you've answered your own question! At some point in the future, after doing this for a few years or decades, you may say to yourself "Wow, I was really green when I started," but you've got to start somewhere, sometime, and I think that for you, the time is now.

Tim

BYS · Jun 14, 2008

ted_smith said:
Hi all

"Photograph the dog in the back garden and nowhere else today, in the rain" I might not be able to get what I consider to be satisfactory shots.

Ted

Hi Ted - I think this is the way I would do it, if I was put in that situation.
I would say - OK, but you have to be together with the dog, and then explain how important it would be for the shots. And then I would wait for something to happen, and I mean wait for a long time. By this, the client either gives up or you can get some pretty good shots of vet dog, vet man.
In any case you will be the boss.

Regarding control - you can't, and I think you know, you photograph animals.

Pro. is only a matter of income, if your primary income comes form photography - well - then you are pro, but that has nothing to do with your ability as a photographer.

Remember that some of the greatest masters where never able to sustain themselves by there images, look at Josef Sudek, he lived his hole life struggling to survive, but he is regarded to be one of the most important artists of the 20th century.

BYS

MattKing · Jun 15, 2008

At the risk of repeating myself...here comes a bit of a rant.

There is a difference between a working photographer, and a professional photographer.

While a working photographer can become designated as a professional photographer by fulfilling the requirements of an appropriate organization (in Canada, for example, the PPAC), it remains my opinion that what constitutes professionalism overlaps only partially with the requirements of those organizations.

If you photograph for pay, than you need to be concerned with maintaining good business practices in order to succeed. Those practices include many things, including promising only those things that you can fulfill.

If you want to photograph professionally, there are higher standards to maintain, some of which might possibly decrease the profitability. Professionalism includes many things, including making meaningful contributions to the profession itself.

Taking control of what you do will contribute in many ways - to your business success, to your growing professionalism and to your peace of mind. You should do your best to learn as much as possible on how to do this.

Rant over .

Matt

Christopher Walrath · Jun 15, 2008

The proof on this one is in the pudding. And it also helps to have it set in your mind that you are professional. If you question yourself, you're not ready. If you think you're ready, you will approach your craft more seriously and begin to really set yourself apart with further education, research, beginning a clientele list, all the wonderfully hum drum, behind-the-scenes things that comprise becoming a professional.

RobC · Jun 15, 2008

And remember that just because you are "serious" or take a professional approach to what you are doing, that doesn't make you a good photographer. Chicken and egg situation. But you have to start somewhere...

Frank Szabo · Jun 15, 2008

ted_smith said:
Hi all

I am registered as self-employed alongside my day job because I have earned a little bit of money from the sale or two of some landscape shots and I hope to make some more in the future. As a government employee, I have to register as s\e with an additional income, no matter how small.

I have devised price lists, set up accounts, gathered a sufficient range of kit to allow me to shoot in most conditions (appropriate lenses, good flash units, reflectors, spare bodies, etc) and also developed a kind of brand - basically, dog photography.

That said, I'm really just an amateur, a keen hobbyist, like many of us.

However, I'm getting to the point where I'd like to place a small local advert to advertise my services. What's worrying me though is that I turn up at a clients house one day and I can't do what a pro does, i.e. get good shots regardless of the conditions thrown at me. I get good shots when the conditions are right and when I have the time and direction to shoot what I want, how I want. But if I turn up at some family home and they say "Photograph the dog in the back garden and nowhere else today, in the rain" I might not be able to get what I consider to be satisfactory shots.

So I guess my questions to those of you who are pro or semi-pro is this...at what point did you venture from being just a serious amateur to someone who actually charges for your services? And how did you know you'd be able to pull it off the first few times you did it? I can keep buying kit till it comes out my ears but eventually I have to say "Ok - I'm ready to go".

Ted

Becoming a "professional" is kinda like growing up - I refuse!

The idea of being a "professional" is just that - it's no more than a state of mind and in some instances, a rather destructive one at that.

It's immaterial whether or not photography is one's primary employment. When we take things seriously and forget how to play, the vision we all must have to do photography disappears quickly.

df cardwell · Jun 15, 2008

mm, gentle disagreement.

Like a professional dentist,
or a professional automobile repair person,
there is a accountability to the client that goes with the phrase 'professional'.

And it isn't optional. Or a state of mind, unless your state of mind
can somehow make those pictures come out that didn't quite come out.

"Professional" isn't about being happy, or making satisfying pictures.
It is about being about to make and fulfill a contract to deliver pictures of a very specific nature.

It has nothing with being an artist. It ain't for everybody.

benjiboy · Jun 15, 2008

Why do so many people aspire to be professional photographers, not professional plumbers, or carpenters that in most cases both would be more lucrative, (certainly was the last time I employed them ) , the question may on the face of it seem flippant but there is a serious point here.

JBrunner · Jun 15, 2008

benjiboy said:
Why do so many people aspire to be professional photographers, not professional plumbers, or carpenters that in most cases both would be more lucrative, (certainly was the last time I employed them ) , the question may on the face of it seem flippant but there is a serious point here.

I haven't found anything else I'm qualified at, that I like, that pays as well.

benjiboy · Jun 16, 2008

Making a living.

JBrunner said:
I haven't found anything else I'm qualified at, that I like, that pays as well.

I read recently Jason, that the average plumber earns more a year than the average surgeon in the U.S , so maybe you'd better re-think, on the other hand photography beats working !
P.S. I saw your blog on Youtube promoting A.P.U.G, great stuff.

When does a serious amateur become a professional?

ted_smith

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