When did Kodak start to discontinue it's films?

Admbws · Jan 3, 2010

B&Wpositive said:
This was Kodak's color film lineup around the middle of 1997:

<snip>

Blimey. That line-up looked ripe for rationalization. Did we really honestly honestly need that many films? There must have been huge "use overlap".

Kodak's modern line-up is fairly clean and uniform. An experienced photographer can decide exactly which film he needs for a given situation. I couldn't honestly say that with that 1997 list. How many of those were just rubbish... sorry... obsolete zombie films clogging up the line-up?

Tom Kershaw · Jan 3, 2010

Admbws said:
Blimey. That line-up looked ripe for rationalization. Did we really honestly honestly need that many films? There must have been huge "use overlap".

Kodak's modern line-up is fairly clean and uniform. An experienced photographer can decide exactly which film he needs for a given situation. I couldn't honestly say that with that 1997 list. How many of those were just rubbish... sorry... obsolete zombie films clogging up the line-up?

Possibly; and there have been film technology improvements in the last 12/13 years which may compensate for more limited product choice. However, there are films on that list such as neutral E6 films and 25 ISO colour negative stock that do not have direct equivalents.

Tom

Martin Reed · Jan 3, 2010

Photo Engineer said:
Not a clue Tom and it seems that no one at Kodak does either. It is one of those imponderable events that confounds everyone. B&W film sales at EK remain strong from what I hear. B&W paper sales fell to abysmal levels. Maybe it was the huge product range? They did have trouble supporting all of those paper types.
PE

From the UK point of view until the early 70's Kodak were very strong in B&W paper, I think it was Ilford launching the technologically superior Multigrade which pushed them onto the back foot, & they never recovered from this.

One or two industry experts of my acquaintance stated many years ago that Kodak would NEVER cease marketing B&W papers, whatever the volume dwindled to, as that would be releasing a larger section of market they had tied up, into the hands of the competition. Until a certain date they must have taken B&W paper very seriously indeed & wanted to retain it, as at one point about 10 years ago there was a deal on the table for Kodak to buy Ilford. Kodak retreated from the deal just before signature, which must pinpoint a U turn in their planning.

Tom Kershaw · Jan 3, 2010

Martin,

From looking at the back of various ILFORD paper boxes they seem to have changed hands rather often; although my earliest usage is only covered by 'ILFORD Imaging (UK) Ltd' circa 2003. Interesting to note that Harman still ships paper with the www.ilford.com URL on the label.

Keith Tapscott. · Jan 3, 2010

Martin Reed said:
From the UK point of view until the early 70's Kodak were very strong in B&W paper, I think it was Ilford launching the technologically superior Multigrade which pushed them onto the back foot, & they never recovered from this.

One or two industry experts of my acquaintance stated many years ago that Kodak would NEVER cease marketing B&W papers, whatever the volume dwindled to, as that would be releasing a larger section of market they had tied up, into the hands of the competition. Until a certain date they must have taken B&W paper very seriously indeed & wanted to retain it, as at one point about 10 years ago there was a deal on the table for Kodak to buy Ilford. Kodak retreated from the deal just before signature, which must pinpoint a U turn in their planning.

I can remember trying `Kodak Elite Fine-Art` B&W paper. Although it was not to everyone`s liking, I thought it was an excellent paper, but it suddenly disappeared before I had a chance to stock-up.

Ian Grant · Jan 3, 2010

The problem in the UK was once RC papers then Multigrade were released Kodak ran 2nd best, mainly because they changed the VC products too frequently, and outside London few dealers stocked Kodak papers by the late 70's a complete change from the mid to late 60's when I started printing seriously and Kodak papers were everywhere.

Ian

B&Wpositive · Jan 3, 2010

Admbws said:
Blimey. That line-up looked ripe for rationalization. Did we really honestly honestly need that many films? There must have been huge "use overlap".

Kodak's modern line-up is fairly clean and uniform. An experienced photographer can decide exactly which film he needs for a given situation. I couldn't honestly say that with that 1997 list. How many of those were just rubbish... sorry... obsolete zombie films clogging up the line-up?

It was a transition period for the Kodak lineup. Some films, like Ektar 25, Ektachrome Elite II 50, Lumiere 100, etc. had recently been or were about to be discontinued. So there was indeed some overlap of products from multiple generations. Portra hadn't come out yet, but you can see that its forerunners existed, etc. I don't think anyone would have called Ektar 25 obsolete at the time.

I basically used Gold 100, 200, and 400 at the time, as well as store-brand film, some ECN-II from a mail order place, etc. That was it. For a kid in 5th grade, that's all you got, and I was happy to have film. I remember shooting 3 or 4 rolls of b&w for a special project back in 6th grade. Boy was it amazing to get to use T-Max when I was 12, even if it was in a point-and-shoot camera.

B&Wpositive · Jan 3, 2010

RGS122 said:
Wow Thanks B&WPositive for the list of Kodak films from 97. I wish I had the chance to use Ektachrome 320T, Ektachrome 400x, Ektachrome P1600, Ektachrome Infrared, and Ektachrome Elite II 50. What exactly was Ektachrome Lumiere 100?

Lumiere was a Pro Ektachrome slide film series during the 1990s. We're talking a time when a brand new Canon T90 was still available at B&H alongside of the F1N and the EOS-1n. I think there were several varieties of Ektachrome Lumiere in both ISO 100 and 50, including "x" versions with a warm balance. E100s and E100sw had replaced Lumiere before I got into photography. The Lumiere films were the first modern E6 films and represented a supposed improvement over EPN and EPP. EPP of course outlived not only Lumiere, but also E100s, E100sw, EPN, and E100GX (which was of course the direct replacement for E100sw).

I remember when E200 came out. It was a big deal.

B&Wpositive · Jan 3, 2010

Kodak's b&w lineup in 1997 consisted of the following:

Technical Pan
T-Max 100
Plus-X 125
Verichrome Pan 125
Tri-X 400
T-Max 400
T-Max 400CN (chromogenic)
T-Max P3200
HIE Infrared
An Orthochromatic film (I don't even know what this one was called)

There were also a bunch of interneg and duplicating films.

Fuji had the following lineup:

Color Print film:

Super G+ 100
Reala 100
NPS-160
NPH-160
NPL-160
Super HG 200
Super G+ 200
Super G+ 400
NHG-400
NPH-400
Super G+ 800
1600 (not sure if it was Super G or HG)
there were also "Press variations" as today (for example, "Super G Press 800")
NHG-II 800 (forerunner to NPZ-800) did not yet exist in 1997.

Fuji also had CDU-II duplicating and also an interneg film.

Slide film:

Velvia 50 (original version)
RTP-64 (tungsten)
Provia 100 (second version)
Astia 100 (brand new at the time)
Sensia 100
Sensia II 100
Sensia 200
Sensia 400
Provia 400 (first version or second version?)
Provia 1600
(the current versions of Sensia, I believe, are actually the third version)

Ilford's film lineup was identical to today's:

Pan F+ 50
Delta 100
FP4+ 125
HP5+ 400
Delta 400
XP-2 400
Delta 3200
SFX-200
(Ilford had something called Universal 400; no idea)

Agfa had the following:

Color print:

Ultra 50
Optima 100
HDC 100
Portrait 160
Otima 200
HDC 200
Optima 400
HDC 400

Slides:

RSX 50
RSX 100
RSX 200
CTX 100
CTX 200
RS 1000

B&W:

APX 25
APX 100
Orthochromatic
APX 400
Scala 200

Konica had:

Print:

VX100, VX200, and VX400

and slide films in the same speeds

Print:

Impresa 50
SRG 160
SRG 3200
Infrared

Scotch had:

100, 400, and 640T slide films

Note on Kodak films:

Kodak was also coming out with a new Ektapress line:

PJA-100
PJB-400
PJC-1600

Later in 2000, they again upgraded the Ektapress line to PJ-100, PJ-400, and PJ-800. I remember using those films once.

Kodak also had an E6 Ektachrome called EPZ-100 in addition to EPN and EPP. I don't know what that was. Perhaps it was their warm-balanced version?

RGS122 · Jan 3, 2010

B&Wpositive said:
Lumiere was a Pro Ektachrome slide film series during the 1990s. We're talking a time when a brand new Canon T90 was still available at B&H alongside of the F1N and the EOS-1n. I think there were several varieties of Ektachrome Lumiere in both ISO 100 and 50, including "x" versions with a warm balance. E100s and E100sw had replaced Lumiere before I got into photography. The Lumiere films were the first modern E6 films and represented a supposed improvement over EPN and EPP. EPP of course outlived not only Lumiere, but also E100s, E100sw, EPN, and E100GX (which was of course the direct replacement for E100sw).

I remember when E200 came out. It was a big deal.

Thanks for the answer, So it was a film that provided more saturation right? So EPN and EPN are "ancient" emulsions, what do you think was the reason they did not upgrade them? I didn't know that 3M made film, they must have stopped making them after 2000 huh?

df cardwell · Jan 3, 2010

I've only been printing for about a decade, but Kodak's black & white paper never seemed popular to me;

You arrived after the train wreck. Kodak made the best paper on the planet for decades.

AlexG · Jan 3, 2010

Here is a page I found from adoramas film catalogue in 1998:
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3874/flower046.jpg

Amazing how some films (FP100C...ect) were more expensive back then! And then it's amazing to see how cheap some films were (neopan...ect)!

EDIT:
Whats the difference with the kodak film labeled DI and Roch.? The latter seems more expensive.

B&Wpositive · Jan 3, 2010

Anyone know what /when the "Ektachrome Panther" series was about?

Ektachrome Panther 50 PRS
Ektachrome Panther 50X PRX
Ektachrome Panther 100 PRP
Ektachrome Panther 100X PRZ
Ektachrome Panther 200X PRD
Ektachrome Panther 400X EPL
Ektachrome Panther 1600X EPH

Did they simply rename the existing Ektachrome series for a while or these different formulations?

B&Wpositive · Jan 3, 2010

For anyone interested, here is a nearly complete listing of common Kodak films that have existed (but with no years on the list unfortunately):

http://www.flickr.com/groups/ishootkodakfilm/

There are also definitely some films that aren't on the list but were once made or are made today.

cmacd123 · Jan 3, 2010

AlexG said:
H
Whats the difference with the kodak film labeled DI and Roch.? The latter seems more expensive.

Probaly "direct Import" and "Rochester".

Even today marketing and curency fluxuations mean that a large dealer can bring film intended to sell elsewhere into the USA market. In the 1970s the store where I worked would get Kodak film from "Kodak Limited' cheaper than they could get the Kodak Canada Product.

cmacd123 · Jan 3, 2010

Ian Grant said:
The problem in the UK was once RC papers then Multigrade were released Kodak ran 2nd best,

ILFOSPEED AND MULTIGRADE were unbeliveable breakthrough products. I recall going to a demonstartion where Ilford had a "darkroom" made of Yellow Plexiglass and demonstrated making a print in 5 Minutes flat. (using the special Ilford Dryer.)- they passed sample prints through a light lock and handed them out.

Chazzy · Jan 4, 2010

B&Wpositive said:
For anyone interested, here is a nearly complete listing of common Kodak films that have existed (but with no years on the list unfortunately):

http://www.flickr.com/groups/ishootkodakfilm/

There are also definitely some films that aren't on the list but were once made or are made today.

Thanks; I didn't know about this Flickr group.

guyjr · Jan 4, 2010

I'm kind of curious, and this thread seems like a good place to ask - as far as slide films go, were the higher speed films ever very popular? I'm thinking the 1600 (and possibly higher?)... was there a concern about too much grain? Seems like for available light photography, you'd want fairly fast film, and these days having just the Fuji 400 available (here in the U.S.) seems a bit limiting. I have successfully pushed it at home to 1600, but as expected, with lots of contrast increase.

Photo Engineer · Jan 4, 2010

Both Fuji and Kodak made 1600 speed color negative films which were preferred by many sports photographers. Konica made a 3200 speed negative film in short runs that had to be preordered.

All of these are now gone.

There was never a popular slide film with a speed greater than 400 AFAIK.

PE

Ian Grant · Jan 4, 2010

Kodak & Fuji also made superb 800/1600 ISO (nominal) E6 films, these were actually slower emulsions but designed for push processing, like the films Ron mentions this was the pinnacle of film sales & technology in many ways, we as customers were spoilt for choice. Those High speed E6 films along with XP-2 were my main films when I shot rock concerts on a regular basis sometimes 2-3 a week, occasionally 2 venues the same night.

Those High Speed films were the first to go un-noticed by most photographers, but to me that was the start of films decline, I had no choice but switch to digital when I began working for a record company about 5-6 years ago.

Ian

Photo Engineer · Jan 4, 2010

The 1600 speed films had a note that they were designed for push processing. Both Fuji and Kodak advertized this for these films. I have one box of the Fuji product here, but the Kodak product is long gone.

PE

perkeleellinen · Jan 4, 2010

When I started shooting in the early '90s I used Fuji Super G+ 400 and Neopan 400 only. Whenever we have threads like this I kick myself for not expanding my horizons a little.

B&Wpositive · Jan 5, 2010

Photo Engineer said:
Both Fuji and Kodak made 1600 speed color negative films which were preferred by many sports photographers. Konica made a 3200 speed negative film in short runs that had to be preordered.

All of these are now gone.

There was never a popular slide film with a speed greater than 400 AFAIK.

PE

Fuji Superia 1600 is still produced:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=superia+1600&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

Photo Engineer · Jan 5, 2010

B&Wpositive said:
Fuji Superia 1600 is still produced:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=superia+1600&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

I had heard that it was discontinued. Sorry.

PE

RGS122 · Jan 8, 2010

On a box of Ektachrome 64T that expired in 2000, I saw that it had some stuff that was not on the newer "Professional" boxes. It had a "Fresh for USA" on it, it had a something that said "Kodak PRO Products Network", and on the part with the manufacturer's information it says "Kodak Professional Division". How come all of these things are gone from the newer boxes?

When did Kodak start to discontinue it's films?

Advertiser

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency