When can I open the tank in 3/4 bath E6 processing?

Recently I have been using the Bellini 6/7 bath E6 kit and am very satisfied with the results. I follow their instructions to the letter, and open the tank once the Reversal bath has been poured into the tank. I find it much easier to work with an open tank as the lids on Paterson tanks inevitably drip a little when doing inversion agitation.

I notice that Jobo, Kodak and Fuji-Hunt (6/7 bath kits) all say you can open the tank after (at the end of) the Reversal bath. Playing safe? I've never noticed any problem opening the tank as soon as I pour in the Reversal bath in the 6/7 bath Bellini kit. I assume all of these kits use pretty similar chemistry.

Turning to the 3/4 bath kits, the now-defunct Tetenal E6 and the new Adox C-Tec E6 instructions say you can't open the tank until after the Bleach-Fix, whereas Arista for their 3/4 bath kit say after the Colour Developer (which incorporates the chemical reversal). Logically, opening after the combined colour developer/reversal bath in a 3/4 bath kit corresponds to the 6/7 Jobo/Kodak/Fuji-Hunt guidance of opening after the Reversal bath.

I used the 3/4 bath Tetenal kit for about 50 films over a 2 year period before the company went bust (twice) and was very happy with it. Since then, I've processed around 50 films in the Bellini kit, and am also happy with that (I can't really tell any difference in quality between the two kits, but of course I've not run densitometric tests and I know some people on this forum are critical of the 3/4 bath process).

I'm considering trying the Adox (same as Tetenal?) 3/4 kit so my question is:

Can I open the tank in the Adox 3/4 kit at the end of the colour development (/reversal) bath? Or must I wait until after the Bleach/Fix bath as per their instructions?

The light-sensitive stage is up to and including the first development step. As soon as the first developer is removed from the film (Bellini's 2-minute wash step) or its activity is halted (e.g. by use of a non-standard acid stop bath), exposure to normal room light should not have any effect on the film anymore.

ChrisGalway said:

Can I open the tank in the Adox 3/4 kit at the end of the colour development (/reversal) bath?

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Yes, I don't see how this would do any harm.

koraks said:

The light-sensitive stage is up to and including the first development step. As soon as the first developer is removed from the film (Bellini's 2-minute wash step) or its activity is halted (e.g. by use of a non-standard acid stop bath), exposure to normal room light should not have any effect on the film anymore.



Yes, I don't see how this would do any harm.

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Thanks for this reply.

So, pushing it, can I open the tank in the 3/4 bath process once I've poured in the CD/reversal bath ... i.e. not wait until the end of the CD/rev in the 3/4 bath kit? This would "correspond" to the Bellini instructions, and as I remarked, I've always followed the Bellini instructions exactly with no (obvious) detrimental effects.

ChrisGalway said:

Thanks for this reply.

So, pushing it, can I open the tank in the 3/4 bath process once I've poured in the CD/reversal bath ... i.e. not wait until the end of the CD/rev in the 3/4 bath kit? This would "correspond" to the Bellini instructions, and as I remarked, I've always followed the Bellini instructions exactly with no (obvious) detrimental effects.

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And after all, in other reversal processes, one exposes the film to light after the wash after first development! So surely one can open the tank!

ChrisGalway said:

So, pushing it, can I open the tank in the 3/4 bath process once I've poured in the CD/reversal bath ... i.e. not wait until the end of the CD/rev in the 3/4 bath kit?

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I expect so, yes. As long as you don't hold me liable for any slightly fogged film, I'd give it a shot if you must.
Personally, when I'm not 100% sure, I err to the side of safety, though. Especially with something like this, which in the end is just a minor inconvenience anyway.

It should be safa to open the tank after first wash. In proper 6-bath, it is recommended to do this after reversal, but it is to play it safe. If the film has not been washed properly, the acidic reversal bath will stop the last remaining developer immediately. But in reality, you can use light instead of stannous chloride for inversion. As all the remaining silver must be fogged in this stage, it really does matter how it is done. Of course, you can´t take the film out of the tank for hours in this stage, as a part of silver halides would turn into elemental silver just because of light - in the same way a photopaper or film will eventually turn black in daylight. But in the case of E6 processing, it should be perfectly safe to open the tank after properly performed first wash.

koraks said:

I expect so, yes. As long as you don't hold me liable for any slightly fogged film, I'd give it a shot if you must.
Personally, when I'm not 100% sure, I err to the side of safety, though. Especially with something like this, which in the end is just a minor inconvenience anyway.

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"As long as you don't hold me liable for any slightly fogged film". Of course not!!! I appreciate your input.

Samu said:

It should be safa to open the tank after first wash. In proper 6-bath, it is recommended to do this after reversal, but it is to play it safe. If the film has not been washed properly, the acidic reversal bath will stop the last remaining developer immediately. But in reality, you can use light instead of stannous chloride for inversion. As all the remaining silver must be fogged in this stage, it really does matter how it is done. Of course, you can´t take the film out of the tank for hours in this stage, as a part of silver halides would turn into elemental silver just because of light - in the same way a photopaper or film will eventually turn black in daylight. But in the case of E6 processing, it should be perfectly safe to open the tank after properly performed first wash.

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Thanks Samu, I'm going to try this and will report back ... but I won't be doing another E6 batch using the 3/4 bath Adox kit until next April, so there will be a little delay. I live life in the slow analogue lane. (And I've just finished a batch using a Bellini kit.).

I have been using the Bellini 6 bath kit for a while now. Last couple goes at it, my reversal bath was going bad between sessions. I just switched to using light exposure for the reversal. So, opening the tank after the first developer and wash is fine. Because I do rotary processing, I close the tank back up afterwards. Results were normal.

Why???

Joel_L said:

I have been using the Bellini 6 bath kit for a while now. Last couple goes at it, my reversal bath was going bad between sessions. I just switched to using light exposure for the reversal. So, opening the tank after the first developer and wash is fine. Because I do rotary processing, I close the tank back up afterwards. Results were normal.

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I have heard this, but never experienced problems with REV in Bellini chemistry. It is a well known fact though, that stannous chloride in water will oxidize almost immediaitely, if the solution is alkaline. So, bad washing. or omitting the first wash altogether will ruin the reversal bath in no time. This is what I suspect. E6 will also not last as long as C-41 chemistry would.