When are Summer temperatures unsafe for lenses ?

I hope no one minds if this has been asked previously.

My situation is I'm in Texas where Summers are Hot.

My car lost it's air conditioning, so the wonderful Texas Summer Sun makes the interior Really Hot. I do not have the money to get the air conditioning restored.

I can survive my 1 hour commute, but I have concerns about toting about my Mamiya RB67 ProSD and lenses when the car easily starts out with an interior temperature at 135°F

What are the safe temperature exposure limits to prevent lenses from being fogged by the mix of heat and internal grease ?

You might try a small styrofoam cooler to store it in if you have the room. As an experiment, pick one up and put a thermometer in it one day and see what it reads when you return at the end of the day.

bobwysiwyg said:

You might try a small styrofoam cooler to store it in if you have the room. As an experiment, pick one up and put a thermometer in it one day and see what it reads when you return at the end of the day.

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Exactly what I would do. In fact, put a cooler inside a cooler. Why not? BTW, those cheap styrofoam coolers are only thick at the top, but half way down the sides, they thin out. The coolers that companies ship dry iced foods in, or refrigerated medical chemicals to clinics, are 100% fat all around. I've seen some of these being sold at regular retail, with handles added. I picked up some of these in several sizes being thrown away where my father was getting chemo treatments. Much, much better than the cheap ones.

If you can survive it, then the lenses can survive it. Texas is more about humidity (lived there, now in Florida, I know humidity). When we lived in New Mexico and Arizona I would carry cameras on a shoulder strap on my bike, and the outside temps would get over 110 and sometimes 115. If the sun was behind me it would cook the cameras and the film in them too. Sometimes the camera would get so hot it would leave a light burn mark on my back through the shirt. Never had a lens issue, and more amazingly, the film never got fogged no matter how long I had it in the camera and how many days I did this. These were generally old cameras and lenses from the 30's and 40's, Summars and Heliars being my favorites. Did this for over 8 years w/o an issue, except that it nearly killed ME! Now I put the bike on the bus rack and sit in the A/C when summer arrives (now)

I think lenses are more at risk from moisture, and going from a cold environment to a hot one quickly, or vice versa. I don't mean from the outside heat to inside A/C, I mean extreme changes. That might give you separation over time. Like going from a Chicago snow storm into a warm building suddenly. But I personally never saw anything like that. In fact, we moved from New Mexico due to the cold winters, and one time I rode my bike in minus 11 degree weather about 45 minutes to get some coffee (must...have...coffee. must....have....coffee), and went right into a toasty warm environment from outside and had no issues w/ the lens. Man, that was the best cup of coffee I ever tasted.

bobwysiwyg said:

You might try a small styrofoam cooler to store it in if you have the room. As an experiment, pick one up and put a thermometer in it one day and see what it reads when you return at the end of the day.

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What he said, but do not leave them in the car longer than necessary. High heat can cause the oils to evaporate and migrate and deposit where they should not be.

I've shot commercially in Dallas for close to two decades - I just never worry about it. And yep, I shot plenty of gigs with an RB and still use it.

I understand the most common problem could be the focus grease getting loose at high temps, but it's never happened to me. I've loaded a black SUV with 35mm, RB, 4x5, and modern video cameras and DSLRs and all the ancillary gear. The worst experience for me has been cameras where the vinyl is starting to peel off - that can get a little looser when super hot.

I still have the small zipper cooler I used to transport film and polaroid in the film days - it was a handy organizer for sensitive goods on set, but even that stuff got pretty warm from time to time. Just never been a problem for me, but with RB lenses hitting their 30th or 40th birthdays, maybe a small cooler for no-ac trips couldn't hurt. I'd skip the styrofoam and get a good zippered cooler, you'll have styrofoam bits all over the place before long. If a cooler is big enough for a closed camera bag, you could probably add some freezer packs if there's no risk of condensation.

I used to shoot fashion stuff for JCPenney - so in August we were shooting winter coats. A makeup artist I used used to bring a cooler of freezer packs, and tape them to the small of the models' backs. They'd shriek when they first went on, but then they really just sucked the heat out of the girls. Cool little tip!

Thank you all and I really appreciate the great advice and wonderful tips

Cooler in the trunk is far better than a cooler in the greenhouse of the cabin!

Reflecting a bit more, I had a Tokina 35-200mm lens, one of the first "extreme" zooms every made, that had the grease vaporize and get all over the glass. Took me awhile to understand why all my shots were soft. I had the Tokina "factory" service it, it was out of warranty. They really should have not charged me, a defect in materials. I mean, really. In this (OK, ca. 1984) day and age?

Paul Verizzo said:

Reflecting a bit more, I had a Tokina 35-200mm lens, one of the first "extreme" zooms every made, that had the grease vaporize and get all over the glass. Took me awhile to understand why all my shots were soft. I had the Tokina "factory" service it, it was out of warranty. They really should have not charged me, a defect in materials. I mean, really. In this (OK, ca. 1984) day and age?

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Maybe they had a max and min temperature in their user manual caveats section, most equipment has.

Paul Verizzo said:

Reflecting a bit more, I had a Tokina 35-200mm lens, one of the first "extreme" zooms every made, that had the grease vaporize and get all over the glass. Took me awhile to understand why all my shots were soft. I had the Tokina "factory" service it, it was out of warranty. They really should have not charged me, a defect in materials. I mean, really. In this (OK, ca. 1984) day and age?

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Years ago I had this with a Minolta MC 58mm f/1.4 lens. The cost of cleaning was high so I brought a new lens. Bad choice, that lenses was much better than the later normal lenses.

From the actual Mamiya RB 67 Professional SD (Pro-SD) manual, the section "Features of the Mamiya RB67 Pro-SD" states:

Excellent heat and cold resistance
The Pro-SD is mechanically advanced so that is components can function over a wide temperature range from approximately -20°C to +50°C.

Plus the section "Camera Storage and Maintenance" states:

Do not store the camera at temperature exceeding 40°C or below -10°C. Also avoid storing in a damp or a sea air environment.

So the 135°F ( 60°C ) I experience in the car is a bit above the border line. Once the tropical Storm Bill moves out, I will be taking some measurements within the trunk and within an insulated freezer bag that I have in the trunk.

I will also try contacting Mamiya to get some specifics, that's if anyone there still remembers anything about pre-digital cameras and lenses

I would be more concerned about the effect on the film rather than the equipment.

Steaphany said:

From the actual Mamiya RB 67 Professional SD (Pro-SD) manual, the section "Features of the Mamiya RB67 Pro-SD" states:

Excellent heat and cold resistance
The Pro-SD is mechanically advanced so that is components can function over a wide temperature range from approximately -20°C to +50°C.

Plus the section "Camera Storage and Maintenance" states:

Do not store the camera at temperature exceeding 40°C or below -10°C. Also avoid storing in a damp or a sea air environment.

So the 135°F ( 60°C ) I experience in the car is a bit above the border line. Once the tropical Storm Bill moves out, I will be taking some measurements within the trunk and within an insulated freezer bag that I have in the trunk.

I will also try contacting Mamiya to get some specifics, that's if anyone there still remembers anything about pre-digital cameras and lenses

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We got 40c in avionics box in an aircraft bay (like auto trunk) parked outside in South England, be higher in Texas.

cliveh said:

I would be more concerned about the effect on the film rather than the equipment.

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Both suffer in high heat.

The biggest risk is wide temperature swings which induce expansion/contraction stresses. I've had problems in southwestern canyons where
there could be 80 degrees or more difference between day and night. Some older lens mount adhesives might not tolerate high temps well.
Then there is an issue with hybrid optics. Glass and plastic expand and contract differently. Then seal material - how much cumulative torture is it going to take before starting to decompose of get gummy - I'm dealing with that problem in one of my MF cameras right now. So why gamble? I put my gear in a picnic cooler or else wrap it in a goosedown jacket - yeah, the best insulation ever, from either hot or cold. But film is considerably more finicky, so might as well keep things comfortable anyway.

Humidity is not something I have to worry about, even here in Texas. When the car's interior gets to 135°F ( 60°C ), the humidity falls to 15%

You could get your air conditioning fixed

Xmas said:

Maybe they had a max and min temperature in their user manual caveats section, most equipment has.

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Puh-leeze. Now we supposed to monitor lens temperatures? I've never had any other lense have the grease vaporize. There are synthetic greases that don't even start to sweat until the hundreds of degrees F.

benjiboy said:

You could get your air conditioning fixed

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Probably less expensive than a CLA for just one lens.

My point was not what you had done but what they should have done as if their kit had been sold without a caveat you could have insisted on a fit for purpose repair.

And yes I only repair with disc brake lubs but there is no warranty that they don't have volatiles that can flash off and damage optics but don't annoy disc brakes.

But lenses can fog up even if you don't cook them.

And I get a lot of repairs that are caused by overheating.

Don't leave optic kit in autos Texas or Alaska...

benjiboy said:

You could get your air conditioning fixed

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Yes, and, in this boundless affluence for all economy, I don't have the money.

In regard to the voiced concerns of the heat on film, film can easily be replaced, well a lot easier than a lens.

Paul Verizzo said:

Puh-leeze. Now we supposed to monitor lens temperatures? I've never had any other lense have the grease vaporize. There are synthetic greases that don't even start to sweat until the hundreds of degrees F.

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If you look at the antique and used lens market, many lenses develop haze from improper storage over the years. The condition of my Mamiya lenses are pristine and I want to keep them that way. Yes, modern optic adhesives and greases do provide qualities that allow them to withstand severe conditions, but I doubt the same materials were in use or even generally available 20 years ago.

Here is a sorta related tangent - What did Hasselblad have to do to make the cameras and lenses taken to the Moon survive and function in the extreme -150°C to 100°C lunar conditions ?

And were the same materials and practices then applied to every camera and lens manufactured by Hasselblad and everyone else since ? With such advancements, why would haze even be an issue with a lens manufactured since 1972 ?

The moon blads only had to work for three days and were 'specials'

Eg

no Lub
Wider than normal wear clearance
Calibrated lens and graticule plate
They might have kept them in LEM over 'night'
Tested in cold room and hot room
Etc.

Some of the old cameras were way more durable than all these bells n' whistles new ones. The less nonsense, the better. That's one reason
P67's have held up so well, even for expedition use.