• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Whats the minimum equip I need for processing ?

removed account4

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
You must hate me and my methods...
huh?


For my first year or so I used zero wetting agent. It made not much of a difference to tell the truth. I started using fotoflo when I scored a free bottle from an old darkroom. Before that? Maybe I would shake the negs to get the water off...

whatever works works ... but unfortunately just because it works doesnt' mean it will be good for the film down the road, or it is the "best" ...
unfortunately new people would rather learn what works and is the best ( the "right way of doing things" ) before breaking the rules

the problem is that there are people that think of archival issues and all that.

oh well
 
Last edited:

Down Under

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
1,086
Location
The universe
Format
Multi Format
An Agfa Rondinax processing tank (box, rather) in good working condition. This will likely set you back +/-$100 on Ebay, less if you luck into one locally. Be sure it comes complete with instructions, as without this brochure the thing will make absolutely no sense at all to you. Or see YouTube.

One (correct, one) plastic measuring graduate, 250 ml.

Three recycled bottles, each able to hold 1000 mls (one liter).

One plastic spoon.

Resist the obvious temptation to use home kitchen items for the above three. You may end up toxifying the entire household, which may lead to marital complications and even divorce. Either will be expensive. Both will be ruinous to your finances and mental well being.

The requisite chemistry. As has already been recommended, D76/ID11 will serve you ideally. Liquid fixers let you mix just enough to process up to five rolls inany one session, and you can then dispose of it. For stop bath, filtered water with a dash (yes, a dash) of household white vinegar. Ignore the naysayers on this point. White vinegar will work just fine.

I travelled in many Asian countries in the 1980s and 1990s with this kit. Processed many B&W films. All came out fine. In those halcyon days, B&W chemistry was available in many photo shops in most Asian countries. Not so now, alas.

A few luxury items (not necessary, but good to have) you may want to add as you go. A changing bag (see other posts for a description of these), an alcohol photo thermometer, a bottle of Photo Flo.

Other bits and pieces (clothes pins to hang up your films to dry) are easily found around the house.

Some chopping and changing is allowed in the above list. For example, if you find a cheap processing tank locally, go for it, and ditch the Rondinax. I still have an Anscomatic tank I bought new in Canada in 1961, complete with insert thermometer (which also serves as the film rotating rod), and I use it at least once a year, to remind myself of what photography was like in my high school days.

Other bits and pieces will most surely turn up as you go along, and if you are anything like me, you will very soon end up with a complete darkroom. This condition is terminal, and there is no known cure or treatment for it. Just enjoy it!
 

Leigh B

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,059
Location
Maryland, USA
Format
Multi Format
You must hate me and my methods...
I don't hate anybody.

I'm an engineer, so I concentrate on process control and repeatability.

Some people only care about the look of the print regardless of how it was made.
There's nothing wrong with that. Just different perspectives on a very complex subject.

- Leigh
 

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
7,014
Format
35mm

Supposed to be a joke...oh well the internet can be a funny place.

If I want repeatability and process control I'd stick with digital. I can take 10,000 shots and the'd all look the same and perfect. As an engineer that's great and boring. I shoot film alongside of digital because I love being able to mess around and get unpredictable results. Maybe 20 years ago I would have thought different. Same reason why I still listen to vinyl when we've surpassed that years and years ago. Perfection is boring.
 

Leigh B

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,059
Location
Maryland, USA
Format
Multi Format
Perfection is boring.
Perhaps, but uniformity is not boring.

If a customer likes a print, and wants one just like it, you're obliged to deliver one just like it.
That requires good process control on your part.

- Leigh
 

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
7,014
Format
35mm
Perhaps, but uniformity is not boring.

If a customer likes a print, and wants one just like it, you're obliged to deliver one just like it.
That requires good process control on your part.

- Leigh

Xerox that print. Will come out exactly the same.
 

Pat Erson

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
336
Format
35mm RF
For my first year or so I used zero wetting agent. It made not much of a difference

You were VERY lucky. I got old negs that were processed without a wetting agent and they're completely unprintable...
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,814
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
Black & white film can be processed with tanks, reels, some bottles, a nylon string to hang film, film hangers, graduated cylinders, and a changing bag. Color has a few more steps and is not that complicated, however the problem is that color needs care higher temperature control. That is the difference for development.

Contact prints requires a print frame and some trays. Enlarging requires the space for a darkroom [the biggest problem] and an enlarger.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
55,156
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
Enlarging requires the space for a darkroom [the biggest problem] and an enlarger.
On the "space for a darkroom" point, see the "Bathroom and temporary darkroom" sticky thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 

Helios 1984

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2015
Messages
1,860
Location
Saint-Constant, Québec
Format
35mm

I wonder why there is no Chinese clones of this device yet, surely it is low-fi enough to be copied and it is made of plastic (Not the most expansive of materials). With the "Recent" rebirth of analogue, there would be a demand.
 

nworth

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
2,228
Location
Los Alamos,
Format
Multi Format
First, you need a developing tank that will take 35mm film. There are a lot of them out there, new and used. For new gear, I would recommend the Patterson tank, which is sturdy, adaptable, and easy to use. You will need a couple of glass or plastic containers to store developer and fixer stock solutions. The size will depend on the size of the packages of developer and fixer you get - often 1 gallon is the smallest available, but 1 liter is good if you can find it. Some developers (like HC-110) and fixers come as liquid concentrates. If you use these you will not need the storage containers. You will also need some sort of graduate. Common household measuring cups, with volumes marked on them, work fine for most purposes. Get a couple of them so you can use them to hold the working solutions. If you need to measure smaller volumes you will need a real graduate. You can get them from places like Photographers' Formulary. You need something to stir with to mix the solutions. You probably have something (plastic or stainless steel) that will work. You can use any clock or watch with a sweep second hand as a timer. You need someplace to work - a work surface that can hold the solutions and the tank. You need someplace to dump the used solutions, and you need a source of water - preferably running water. The kitchen sink and the bathtub are traditional places for beginners to work, and they have all the needed facilities. You will need a place that can be made absolutely dark (no light leaks) to load the film into the tank. If you can't find a place like that (it's surprisingly difficult) you can get a changing bag from one of the larger photo equipment dealers. Finally you will need developer and fixer. This is a matter of choice, but I would suggest using the liquid concentrates to start. Stop bath is often recommended between the developer and fixer, but you can use a thorough water rinse instead. You should read some introductory darkroom work material or watch one of the films on the subject (You Tube has some).

Color is not that much different than black and white except for temperature control. You need to keep the solutions at 100 F plus or minus 1/2 degree during processing for color. The solutions are different, and there are more of them, but the processing is similar. I've done it with limited equipment using a water bath with a fish tank heater for temperature control.
 

Pioneer

Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
3,991
Location
Elko, Nevada
Format
Multi Format
You asked for the bare minimum.

1. Protection for you from chemicals - Usually a pair of latex gloves, bib to protect your clothes and chemical goggles.

2. Very dark place - this is needed to take film out of camera, film holder, or cassette and develop it. You can use a very dark bathroom with a few plastic trays and a timer. Or you can use a bag that closes up light tight (commonly called a changing bag) where you can take the film from the camera or cassette, put it on a reel and then put the reel in a daylight developing tank. Trays can be rocked back and forth or you can physically move the film itself for agitation. Daylight tanks are either inverted or rolled back and forth to provide agitation while the film develops.

3. Water - Used to mix chemicals, wash film that has been developed and fixed, and generally keep your tools and hands clean.

4. Chemicals - Film developer. There are lots of options but Kodak D76 handles almost any black and white film made today and is very easy to find. It is great to start with. Rodinal is another developer that is a good beginning developer. Caffenol is also good and can be mixed from locally obtained supplies like Instant Coffee, Washing Soda and Vitamin C. Stop Bath. This is typically used to stop the development process at the end of the developing cycle. In some rare cases it is not needed. People often use water for this but water just slows the process down, it doesn't actually stop it. If you want to reuse your fixer more than once you should use a stop bath of some kind. Vinegar works but there are other options that are probably cheaper. Fixer. This will fix the image that has been developed so that it doesn't fade away once you expose it to light. Once the film is fixed you can wash it in full light. Wash Aid. This is used at the end to allow the water to drain off the film quickly and not leave water spots on your film. Distilled Water. This isn't a chemical and may not be completely necessary, but if you have any sediment or metals in your tap water it makes life much easier. I use it to mix chemicals and to do the final rinse of my film.

5. Accessories - Fluid measuring items. I use plastic 2 cup measuring cups from Wal-Mart. I write "Chemicals" on them in magic marker so someone does not try to use them for cooking or baking. Trays or a daylight developing tank. Your choice here, most people use the daylight tanks but I actually started by taking the film off the spool and dumping it into the chemicals mixed in the measuring cups themselves. I just swirled it around with my fingers (with gloves on) and would grab each end of the roll of film once in a while to pull it back and forth through the solution. I seen it demonstrated in my little Kodak booklet. It was primitive but it did work for both 35mm and 120 roll film. Large Plastic Mixing Bowl to dump used chemicals and contaminated wash water into rather than down the drain. If you are on a city sewer system this may not be necessary. Clothes pins and an indoor clothes line over the bathtub are handy for hanging film. I used Bulldog or Binder clips to weigh down the other end of the strip of film. I still do. You will need a timer, preferably one that you can reset in the dark. Mine has illuminated numbers and they don't seem to bother the film. I buy cheap ones at Wal-Mart because they die on me once in a while. Resetting them with wet fingers does that. A One Gallon Water Pitcher is not necessary but it stops me from running water continually and I can have a water pitcher with warm (20C) water available. Thermometer. Black and white film is typically developed best around 20 degrees C. I bought an inexpensive analogue one that shows Centigrade and Fahrenheit scales, and so far it has worked. If it is off it is off the same amount all the time so it is repeatable. Funnels. These will help when you need to pour reusable chemicals back in their bottle. Plastic Bottles. To hold chemicals. Paper Towels. Lots of them. Film Data Sheets are absolutely necessary if you want to know how the manufacturer of the film says you need to develop their film to get good, repeatable results. I print them off the internet so I have hard copies to read before I develop my film if I feel the need.

6. Sources - Freestyle Photo is a great source for a lot of this stuff and they cater to students and teachers so they will have lots of supplies and information for people just getting started. In the beginning they were my main source of supplies and information. I called them a lot. They were always good and often pointed out cheaper alternatives from my local stores that I would not of thought of. Wal-Mart and the Dollar Store were also great sources of supplies. Of course APUG and LargeFormatPhotography are also great for online information. If you are using a film where technical data sheets are not easy to get, try www.digitaltruth.com. Their Massive Development Chart is a tremendous resource all on its own and they have lots of other aides and resources as well.

This may not seem very minimal but I was able to keep everything in a milk crate in the beginning. Of course the desire for convenience can lead us to buy lots of nice things that may, or may not, be worthwhile. As a result I need lots more room than a milk crate to keep everything now.

Good luck and have fun.

EDIT - Once you have this mastered you can start thinking about printing and developing your prints.
 
Last edited:

Agulliver

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
3,718
Location
Luton, United Kingdom
Format
Multi Format
IMO there is no need to use safety glasses/goggles or bibs with standard B&W chemistry. You might like to use disposable gloves if you find your skin is sensitive or allergic to anything in the chemicals. There's stuff that will do more harm to your hands, clothes, carpet and lungs in most cleaning products than you will find in B&W developer, fixer, stop bath and wetting agent. That said, it is certainly wise not to wash your equipment in a dish washer which is also used for dishes as these machines tend to recycle water from one run for the next few....and don't use your food measuring devices (jugs, cups) to measure photo chemicals or to make solutions. What you don't want is to be actually ingesting the stuff - though in all honesty accidentally swallowing a bit of developer or fixer isn't likely to land you in hospital it's still not good to ingest. Common sense is advised. If you ever get into doing colour, or B&W reversal, then you will be dealing with bleaches which are often irritants nd can stain clothing, carpets etc.

One further idea...not essential but I find this useful...there is an app for Android devices (and possibly others) called Film Developer, and related Film Developer Pro for which there is a small charge. For the most part it gathers all the info from the massive development chart and has a simple user interface allowing you to select pretty much any developer/film combo...dilution, agitation, temperature and the ISO/Speed you wish to aim for. Eg...if I have a roll of HP5+ that I shot at 1600, wish to process in ID-11 stock agitating every minute and room temperature is 18C I just press those buttons and it tells me the recommended time...also has a countdown timer with audible beeps for filling, agitating and emptying the tank. It also has a personalised timer function where you can set any time you like and even an attempt at being a red or green darkroom safe light. Nifty app. In addition users can choose to send data on what they're processing and how it turns out in order to help the accuracy of the app.
 

nosmok

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
696
Format
Multi Format
I don't think anybody mentioned this yet: spend a few bucks extra and get Hewes reels for 35mm. I was tearing my hair out until I did. I have a bunch of 35mm reels, metal and plastic,and nothing works like the Hewes. I might be unnaturally clumsy but there's my 2 cents.
 

Dennis S

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Vancouver B.C.
Format
Multi Format
This is a great idea as I have purchased a lot of "new" equipment off of Craigslist. Purchase by people who wanted to have a professional darkroom set up but did not fully understand the process.
 
Last edited:

Down Under

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
1,086
Location
The universe
Format
Multi Format
Am revisiting this thread today, as I do occasionally do to old threads I have commented on. A lot of good advice here.

I will add the following to my essentials list (see #27).

Wetting agent. A must for clean negatives and (I believe) protection against fungus, 'tho I'm unsure about fading. I used Kodak's Photo Flo for decades and now use the Tetenal brand. A bottle will last you forever. Higher dilution is the way, mix it with an eyedropper). Err on the side of high dilutions, a few drops in a 500 ml bottle of (ideally distilled or demineralised), use it for one or two week, then dispose of it.

A black changing bag. An essential item with regular processing tanks but not essential with a Rondinax. It may save your hide one day when your camera jams up mid roll or a35mm is accidentally ripped out of its canister. I've owned two in 54 years and have used them abut 54,000 times. Well worth owning one.

(#37) Someone in Europe, I believe, did manufacture a Rondinax clone in the 1950s. About ten years ago I came across one in a secondhand shop in South Australia, the owner wanted $25 for it and silly me, I didn't buy it. Brain clicked in and a few weeks later I was in the area and raced in to buy it. Oh, said the owner, that old thing, nobody wanted it and about a week ago I put it out in the rubbish. Huh!

(#39) Many obsess about this but I have never seen the need for overthinking protection from B&W chems. Use sensible precautions and don't drink the stuff. As I believe I wrote in an old post, in my home town in Canada an old old photographer drank beer and whisky in his darkroom out of an old photo processing tank. Eventually he died,aged 80+, of lung cancer from a lifetime of three packs a day. I recall reading somewhere that Ansel Adams at the end of his life, was tested for photo chemistry toxicity and found to be 100% free even from selenium toner contamination. If anyone would have been affected, it was Ansel.

As for the Rondinax, I enjoy using my two, except for the need to constantly agitate during the entire process as so little chemistry is used (+/-250 ml for 35mm films). I like eccentric gadgets and the Rondinax fits perfectly into this category, very 1920s-1930s German, an ideal match with odd cameras like old Plaubels and prewar Exactas.

Except for the tank, a reliable thermometer, and the chemistry, everything you need in a darkroom can easily be found in a Reject Shop or $2.00 shop, as long as you know what it is you want to buy a cheap substitute for. YouTube videos are a good source of sensible basic advice in this area.

If one is determined to go absolutely minimalist, a roll film can be processed by the see-saw method using three Pyrex trays in a totally dark room. Someone with a stopwatch or an accurate timer will have to stand by outside the door to tell you when to move the film from tray to tray, which could be "inconvenient" to put it politely. I have a few rolls of 116 and 616 film processed in the '60s by this method, but it is most definitely not recommended for 35mm films.