What's the best manual focus nikon body for TTL and fill flash

Christiaan Phleger · Jun 2, 2014

The best manual focus camera for TTL and fill flash is undoubtably the Nikon F4s; It will do Matrix metered TTL Fill flash with Ai and Ai-S manual focus lenses. I used it for years for rock solid fill flash for weddings on color film. With the Metz flashes rather than the SB-24/5/6 the flash exposure compensation was mechanical and you could shift +/- 1/3 stop with one quick slide of a switch, a little more for the bridesmaids and a little less for the groomsmen, fast and simple, you could do it without looking and I often did.
Additionally with the F4 and TTL flash with manual focus lenses, with Pre-Ai, modified Ai and K model the camera would revert to a more simpler center weighted TTL due to the lack of an AI Indexing Post. I figured out the relative distance and modified some older lenses (35mm f/1.4 and 28mm f/2 among them) so that they could give Matrix Metering on the F4 and thus allow full Matrix Meter assisted Matrix Balanced TTL with fill flash. Used to use it all the time; weddings on Sat and Sun (sometimes 2 on Sat). Rock solid, great results; easy to figure out and and easy set and use. If the new stuff could be that simple!
more rants at four-silver-atoms.com

JW PHOTO · Jun 2, 2014

RidingWaves said:
Rock solid, great results; easy to figure out and and easy set and use. If the new stuff could be that simple!
more rants at four-silver-atoms.com

I like the last two sentences and agree 100%. When I was doing weddings my main ceremony outfit was a Hasselblad, but my Nikon FE2 was there for mainly pre-ceremony and the reception. I used that FE2 so much that it fit like a glove and I could use it even if I were blind I think. This new digital stuff is so complicated(for an old fart anyway) that I'm really thankful I can see the result instantly, because many shots would have wrong setting or something. If I were still shooting weddings and digital didn't exist I would never have a camera as complicated as these new "wiz-bang" jobs. When working a wedding things can get confusing enough without having to try and figure out what the heck is going on with your camera. I do know that some makers are actually listening to some of us "old farts" and are dumbing down some of their high-end stuff and making it more like our old analog cameras and my hat is off to them. I'd love to have an FE2 film camera and an exact copy FE2D (D for digital and not dummy) camera. What a dream outfit that would be. JW

mweintraub · Jun 2, 2014

F-601M

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_F-601M

trythis · Jun 2, 2014

Well, I thought I would get what I wanted from the N70 I found in my parts cabinet, but the battery door just grenaded on me. I was just getting use to the horrendous interface too (set it to A and leave it there... ). The Fe2 and FA are looking much better after fooling with that thing.

TheToadMen · Jun 2, 2014

mweintraub said:
F-601M
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_F-601M

Interesting. I didn't know about this manual body. I do know the regular F-601 (AF model).
One more added to my wish list ;-)

Bert from Holland
http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl

Chan Tran · Jun 2, 2014

RidingWaves said:
The best manual focus camera for TTL and fill flash is undoubtably the Nikon F4s; It will do Matrix metered TTL Fill flash with Ai and Ai-S manual focus lenses. I used it for years for rock solid fill flash for weddings on color film. With the Metz flashes rather than the SB-24/5/6 the flash exposure compensation was mechanical and you could shift +/- 1/3 stop with one quick slide of a switch, a little more for the bridesmaids and a little less for the groomsmen, fast and simple, you could do it without looking and I often did.
Additionally with the F4 and TTL flash with manual focus lenses, with Pre-Ai, modified Ai and K model the camera would revert to a more simpler center weighted TTL due to the lack of an AI Indexing Post. I figured out the relative distance and modified some older lenses (35mm f/1.4 and 28mm f/2 among them) so that they could give Matrix Metering on the F4 and thus allow full Matrix Meter assisted Matrix Balanced TTL with fill flash. Used to use it all the time; weddings on Sat and Sun (sometimes 2 on Sat). Rock solid, great results; easy to figure out and and easy set and use. If the new stuff could be that simple!
more rants at four-silver-atoms.com

If you call the f4 a manual focus camera then almost all 35mm SLR are manual focus. I have not found one that can not be manual focus.

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 2, 2014

The F-601M is a not a very interesting camera, It is a F-601 minus the AF module, the flash and spot metering.
It doesn't work fully with MF lenses. Can't do Matrix metering nor does it work in Program or Shutter Priority with AI lenses.
As such, it is only interesting for its flash capabilities and its HP viewfinder. The F-601 and 601M are the only Nikon models that are "blind" to the flash in use and will override whatever is set on the flash as long as the flash is set to TTL.
As an example with a SB-26: on a F90X if you switch the flash to the Rear curtain sync, the camera body will show you that on the top LCD. If you try to set rear sync on the body without switching the flash to it, the flash will command the body.
On the F-601 the body will command the flash by-passing it. So you need to set rear sync on the body and you'll get it regardless the position of the switch on the flash. Also, you don't get any info on the flash LCD and have to set it up, imputing the ISO and aperture in use if you want to know the effective distance for the aperture you are using.
The F-601 models are also the only Nikons that can do rear sync in a wired multiple flash set up.
The SB-26 manual has a rather long chapter on the F-601 flash. And Nikon even wrote a small booklet that came with the F-601just about the F-601 flash features.

Eric Rose · Jun 2, 2014

It's to bad you have discounted the F5. It's the best pro camera Nikon made IMHO. I had a F6 and went back to the F5. One of the reasons was the F6 was to small in my hands and was not built as tough as the F5. People complained that the F5 ate batteries for breakfast. I have never had that problem and suspect that the story was just repeated over and over again by forum trolls that have never laid hands on a F5. If the F5 is to heavy for you and I can see some people would have a problem (no heavier than a F or F2 with motor drives I suspect) The N90s might be a good camera to try. I wore out at least 5 of them. Great cameras! These days N90s cameras go for a song. You can get a minty F5 for around $250 or less.

Chan Tran · Jun 2, 2014

Now that I hate the F5 for primary flash that is when the flash is the main light source but it's great for fill in flash. So I guess when I shoot in low light with flash I use the F3 and in bright light with fill I use the F5.

Eric Rose · Jun 2, 2014

Chan Tran said:
Now that I hate the F5 for primary flash that is when the flash is the main light source but it's great for fill in flash. So I guess when I shoot in low light with flash I use the F3 and in bright light with fill I use the F5.

How does the F3 handle primary flash differently from the F5? I have never used a F3. Skipped the F3 and F4.

Chan Tran · Jun 2, 2014

The F3 seems always give me good exposure with TTL flash when the F5 consistently underexposure but not by the same amount. I am so tired of the F5 giving me bad exposure so that I stopped using TTL when using the F5 but rely on the flash built in sensor. But since the F3 has slow sync speed it's not good for fill flash plus the fact the flash would try to give correct exposure which give the picture unnatural look while the F5 under expose the flash a bit and give much natural look when using flash as fill.

Eric Rose · Jun 2, 2014

Chan Tran said:
The F3 seems always give me good exposure with TTL flash when the F5 consistently underexposure but not by the same amount. I am so tired of the F5 giving me bad exposure so that I stopped using TTL when using the F5 but rely on the flash built in sensor. But since the F3 has slow sync speed it's not good for fill flash plus the fact the flash would try to give correct exposure which give the picture unnatural look while the F5 under expose the flash a bit and give much natural look when using flash as fill.

Maybe it's your F5, I've never run into that problem.

Chan Tran · Jun 2, 2014

I sent the F5 back to Nikon twice and it came back the same way and it was under warranty.

trythis · Jun 2, 2014

Eric Rose said:
It's to bad you have discounted the F5. It's the best pro camera Nikon made...

I am sure the F5 is wonderful, but luggin that around with a toddler, a newborn, wife, diaper bag, stroller...not gonna happen. 8 AA batteries:eek: -- I am not shooting a football game or trying to catch rare birds mating. Mostly my camera has a 50mm 1.8 E series on the front and a wide prime in the bag...sort of a ridiculous combo for an F5. Anyway its going to be a fuji medium format rangefinder of some sort if I carry anything that large.

Christiaan Phleger · Jun 2, 2014

I'm not the only one who says the F4 is better as a manual focus camera; better finder and screens than any other AF camera and I dare you to find one its equal or better.
The F5 Does Not do Matrix Balanced TTL Flash with anything BUT AF lenses or lenses that have a chip added, that may be the reason you are getting poor results with the F5 and flash; thats a big reason why I didn't use an F5 for weddings (until relatively recently).

Chris G · Jun 2, 2014

Chan Tran said:
The F3 seems always give me good exposure with TTL flash when the F5 consistently underexposure but not by the same amount. I am so tired of the F5 giving me bad exposure so that I stopped using TTL when using the F5 but rely on the flash built in sensor. But since the F3 has slow sync speed it's not good for fill flash plus the fact the flash would try to give correct exposure which give the picture unnatural look while the F5 under expose the flash a bit and give much natural look when using flash as fill.

I cant imagine picking the F3 over an F5 for flash, unless its for some kind of nostalgic reason. From what you describing, your F5 needs to be serviced, or the flash is bad. The F5 nails TTL fill or main, and BL (Backlit) almost always. I had the flash circuitry replaced on my F5 by Nikon Canada in 2012 for a similar issue.

Not sure if anyone mentioned it but the F100 is probably the best choice. Modern flash, cheap, matrix metering. Hard to go wrong with the F100

trythis · Jun 3, 2014

trythis said:
Well, I thought I would get what I wanted from the N70 I found in my parts cabinet, but the battery door just grenaded on me. I was just getting use to the horrendous interface too (set it to A and leave it there... )...The Fe2 and FA are looking much better after fooling with that thing.

Ok, if anyone is worried , I fixed the battery door.

I just got a SB16 a/b combo for cheap enough and it will do TTL on my F3, which I like too much to sell and will work for most of my flash purposes. I also own it, which is a consideration . Now to find a cheap AS-7.

SB16 is good for
TTL fill on the bizarre but very useful N70.
TTL Fill with my N80 as I get more AF lenses.

If I ever get an F4, it will do TTL and Matrix Fill.
If I ever get an F6 (HA!), it will do everything as well.

Seems to work with the FE2 and FA just fine as well in case one of them falls in my lap.

It appears to be nice for bounce with the secondary front flash... interesting!

Its not an SB26 with a AS-17 which would cost $250 but I can live with it, although it may be rather large.

dorff · Jun 3, 2014

trythis said:
If I ever get an F6 (HA!), it will do everything as well.

The F100 is 95% of what the F6 is, with the exception of a iTTL compatibility. I paid $45 for my last one, with the battery grip included. You probably won't want another Nikon after you tried one.

GarageBoy · Jun 5, 2014

Do you guys use any modifiers on your flash when using it as fill?

kivis · Jul 4, 2018

Too bad you can't swing for an FM3a. It is perfect for the job.

Chan Tran · Jul 4, 2018

Chris G said:
I cant imagine picking the F3 over an F5 for flash, unless its for some kind of nostalgic reason. From what you describing, your F5 needs to be serviced, or the flash is bad. The F5 nails TTL fill or main, and BL (Backlit) almost always. I had the flash circuitry replaced on my F5 by Nikon Canada in 2012 for a similar issue.

Not sure if anyone mentioned it but the F100 is probably the best choice. Modern flash, cheap, matrix metering. Hard to go wrong with the F100

I sent my F5 back to Nikon in the 3 year warranty period for this problem and they made them worse. I gave up.

MartinCrabtree · Jul 4, 2018

In my experience the F5 coupled with the SB-28 is as good as it gets. Especially with transparencies. Too bad it doesn't fit the OP's wishes.

Dennis-B · Jul 5, 2018

Eric Rose said:
It's to bad you have discounted the F5. It's the best pro camera Nikon made IMHO. I had a F6 and went back to the F5. One of the reasons was the F6 was to small in my hands and was not built as tough as the F5. People complained that the F5 ate batteries for breakfast. I have never had that problem and suspect that the story was just repeated over and over again by forum trolls that have never laid hands on a F5. If the F5 is to heavy for you and I can see some people would have a problem (no heavier than a F or F2 with motor drives I suspect) The N90s might be a good camera to try. I wore out at least 5 of them. Great cameras! These days N90s cameras go for a song. You can get a minty F5 for around $250 or less.

PLUS ONE!

I owned an F6 with the MB40 grip, traded favorably for a nice Hassy 500 C/M, and just bought another F5 that's in nearly mint condition. I also own both the F3 and F4s. The F4 is really engineered well, save the viewfinder LCD bleed.

I'm a bit gun shy on recommending the FA, even though I own and use one. The electronics are a bit iffy and fragile, along with a lot of negative reviews. I've not had a single problem with mine, with around 100 rolls of film through it.

The N90s is a great camera, but the "gooey" back which develops over time, is a turn off, otherwise a great TTL camera.

What's the best manual focus nikon body for TTL and fill flash

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